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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:55 am 
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Tony—it’s actually the second time I’ve had to abort a trip, second in 6 yrs, so I guess I shouldn’t complain. Since nothing broke and I learned a lot, it was a positive trip. In 15 yrs, I never aborted a sea kayak trip, but maybe I was a bit more careful planning sea kayak trips. We did hit some foul weather on some of our trips. Still, given the choice, I’d rather be on my Hobie AI when doing a camping trip—much less work, especially in foul weather, and I can carry more gear (but not too much more!)

Don—yes, it probably was a lot like your crossing from Shell Island to Ana Maria Island. If you had come along on this trip, we would not have turned back, that is for sure. There are a number of places along the route that we could camp. They are not my favorites, but you would definitely have found them interesting. And, then, we would have pushed on to MidCape the next day—not a problem. It was too easy for me to turn back, because I’ve done this trip many times, and I was making very slow progress to my destination. Besides, I could go home and see what my GoPro had captured. It makes me admire the WaterTribers—they usually travel alone and they just keep moving forward no matter the conditions. Frankly, had I thought of them when I was out there, I might have looked at it as a challenge and pushed on.

NOHUHU—yeah, it was pitch pole conditions for a Hobie 16 for sure. Everything has to be tethered on, yes? I still don’t have a tether for myself, though.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:45 am 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Damn, I was looking forward to the iPhone/tablet app. review. Sometimes it takes more courage to pull out of a trip than to actually attempt it. In that Tasmania trip I attempted early this year, I travelled over 700 miles by car and boat, which took 3 days. Only to stand on the shoreline with the salt spray in my face and say to myself that there is no way I'm going out in that. I keep telling myself that only 'we' know the conditions at the time and our own limits, so therefore there is no better expert to make the correct decision. So Keith, you must have made the right decision.

Glad you got some footage though. Just shows how quick things can happen. I missed the submarining in real time.

I haven't yet done the loooong trips that you have Keith, and I'm sure after all your years of camping you have your food requirements and menus nutted out, but as far as water usage and weight goes, I now use vacuum sealing and sous vide style cooking when I can. It suits camping so well. To prepare, all you need to do is heat the bag of food in some salt water. No cans or packaging, no washing up ( if you eat out of the bag ) and no fresh water needed.

Here is a meal I prepared earlier. Thai garlic seafood with sour cream and noodles for main course with stewed rhubarb and plumbs for desert. Absolute minimal weight and cleanup.

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Last edited by Slaughter on Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:03 am 
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Slaughter, I've seen your vacuum seal system, but tell me, you can boil them w/ your food? What bags do you use--brand name? What brand vacuum sealer? Looks like a good idea for some things. I guess you could even take something frozen, which might last 1-2 days in a small cooler, and make a pretty good meal.

Regarding my decision to turn around, a tourist who came by (helped me load my boat) and said, "sometimes you have to make that call." True.

I'm sure turning back from that Tasmania trip was a real disappointment. It would have been for me. Frankly, it would have brought me to tears, really.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:34 am 
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They have to be sous vide bags which can handle the temperature with giving off any plastic nasties.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Qty-100-20cm ... 693&_uhb=1

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VACUUM-SEALI ... 129&_uhb=1

On an overnight trip I have 2 food bags. One as a cooler which I devour within the first 3 days. The other as a dry food bag which I still vacuum pack soups, biltong, biscuits, breakfast cereals etc.
P.S. You have never tasted a steak until you have tasted a sous vide steak, honest.

I'm not endorsing any of these actual ebay product. Just a guide.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:53 am 
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The Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 tablet is nice, but beware that there is a version with 3g/4g and one which only has wifi. The later one has to connect via a mobile phone, or the gps will not work. The one with 3g/4g will work on its own, but it costs more than twice as much, or about 200 dollars more, at least here in Sweden.

Maybe that is clear to all of you, but I just want to ascertain that you dont buy a version that suits you less well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:02 am 
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Keith:
There is a similar system available over here that we use called foodsaver ( http://www.foodsaver.com/vacuum-sealers). Anything you put in there is vacuum preserved and can be cooked (actually warmed up) in a campfire with salt water, or any water available (doesn't have to be super clean).

Actually sous vide (pronounced saw veigh) is a gourmet cooking method for raw food that chefs use (basically cook at very low temp (<130f) for long periods of time (like 8 hrs or so), this is not what you will be doing (unless you really want to elevate your cooking skills at the campsite (LOL)). It's just called vacuum storage over here.

Foodsaver doesn't recommend putting raw food in their bags for cooking (though there is really no reason you couldn't do things like vegetables with their method), then cooking right in the bag, they recommend cooking the food, put it in the food saver vacuum bags, then seal and freeze (more like MRE meals). When you are ready to eat you just throw in hot water to warm up and eat right out of the bag when camping. Because the food is vacuum packed it will last much longer even if it thaws out some.
In a pinch (can't make a fire), you can easily just thaw, then eat right out of the bag (that's probably what I would be doing ( I get hungary, and can't wait (LOL))
Hope this helps
Bob

All their products are BPA free (no plastic nasties).

I find that I don't need much of this stuff because they usually serve free breakfast at the Hilton ( LOL), but we got it just in case.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:30 am 
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Hobie Craft, I don't know where you are getting your information, but Samsung's Galaxy Tab 3 does not need any 3g/4g or Wi-Fi connectivity for the GPS to function.

BTW, the Galaxy Tab 3 is a tablet, not a phone. It does not have 3g/4g connectivity. HC, are you talking about a phone?

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:39 am 
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Bob, thanks for all the info. You do not need to eat your vacuum packed food cold--buy a jet boil and have it hot in about 5 min--if you can wait that long. Pack the jet boil in a separate bag so it is available the moment you land. Have your easy chair lashed onto your haka (tramps?) so you can enjoy it setting down. It is the only way to go.

If you vacuum pack your dinner leftovers, I don't think you would need any cooking skills except to start a jet boil (match required) and the ability to boil water. It is a non-fail system. You can read about it in "Outdoor Cooking for Dummies" published anonymously.

Again, as usual, thanks for all the info.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:17 am 
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Bob, I still have a question about your food saver system before I trust it having dinner out at Cape Sable in 45 deg weather with winds on the order of 25 mph. I went to the link you provided above, and all they show is the vacuum sealing of fresh meats--nothing cooked. They don't seem to say anything about warming for 5-10 min in boiling water. I'm afraid if I tried these foodsaver things that I would end up with something that looks like when I put plastic wrap over something and leave it in the microwave for too long. So, the question, can your food saver bags be heated in boiling water for 5-10 min (without melting into the food)?

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:09 am 
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# Chekika

You´re obviously not an expert when it comes to these things. Neither am I. But I bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 in july and certainly know that it is a tablet. I use it a lot every day. It is about as easy to write text with it as it is to write text with a laptop, even without an external keyboard.

I also know very well that you can buy a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 with 3g/4g connectivity. If you have it you can always download maps and information to your tablet. If you dont have it you need to already have downloaded maps and other information, unless you can connect to the net with a mobile. Otherwise the gps will not be very functional, even if it can give you your coordinates.

But you are probably right that it is not very necessary to have a connection with the internet, if you already have downloaded the information you need.

Of course there is often a lot of information included in the navigation software. But you dont get the tablet full with every kind of information you might need if you travel and you also have to connect to internet to get the information updated.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:54 am 
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Keith:
Good question, We had a shrimp and crab boil last night (it was delicious), and had some left over so I put some into a vacuum storage bag, then put it in a pan with pool water (so I could smell the chlorine if it leaked), then boiled for 10 minutes in a saucepan.
I cut the bag open when done, and all the food was perfectly cooked and tasted as good as it did last night.

I on purpose put clams and crab legs (with sharp points and edges) into the bag to make sure they wouldn't puncture the bag when cooking.

Actually I think the system is designed and marketed for long term freezer storage (the crap lasts for years) so they don't give a hoot about what people use it for camping wise I suspect.
We just happened on it a few years ago, and found it great for preparing camping meals when we are out with our camper for long periods of time. Of course our camper has full stove, oven, fridge, microwave, and a sleep number bed etc (we like to rough it). We just find it easy to prepare a bunch of stuff for a couple weeks in advance, that we just use up as we go. A cooler with some dry ice and packed with all this frozen stuff easily lasts a couple weeks (near the end you need to add regular ice though), since everything is sealed, it doesn't matter if it sits underwater in the cooler (one of the main reasons we do it).

I was hungary so I went ahead and fixed my lunch and took pics ( I would be out sailing today, but I injured my back, and am giving it a rest).

Here I am vacuum sealing the food into the bag (pretty simple and fast)
Image

Here is the food boiling for ten minutes in the pot (I didn't do anything to protect the bag from touching the sides)
Image

Here I am lifting the bag out of the boiling water, the vacuum seal still in tact
Image

Here is the food piping hot on the plate ( I didn't taste or smell any chlorine from the pool water). Even the whole potatoes were hot all the way through.

Image

In the directions if you have moist food (like spaghetti), you have to put a paper towel near the sealing edge to protect the moisture from going into the vacuum pump. Once you cut it open you just throw the paper towel obsorber away. We also do that with raw meat (but that's a different purpose (for long term freezer storage). For example I will buy a whole pork loin, then cut a gazzilian pork chops, and freeze the ones we aren't using that day, their good in the freezer raw for a few years, just thaw in the fridge, cut the bag open (a year or two later (because we forget about them)), then cook on the grill (it actually works).

Our shrimp and crab boil was supposed to include lobster, it's too cold for us to go out diving right now and catch our own stuff (what we usually do) and lobster right now is $38 per lb (ouch), so we did without the lobster this time. Our family from up north (my brothers and sisters) still had a great time since there is 100 degrees difference in the temps compared to up north right now.

Our next wave of family from up north is coming in tomorrow.

It appears this system is pretty much the same as what Slaughter has and uses in Australia. I think we got ours at Walmart.

Bob

Edit:
Of course the boil would have been better with our own catch (spiny lobster, and stone crab), but the relatives from up north didn't notice the difference ( LOL)

The catch from our last crab/lobster boil down in Key West (very yummy)
Image


Last edited by fusioneng on Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Hobie Crafte wrote:
# Chekika
I also know very well that you can buy a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 with 3g/4g connectivity... unless you can connect to the net with a mobile. Otherwise the gps will not be very functional, even if it can give you your coordinates.

But you are probably right that it is not very necessary to have a connection with the internet, if you already have downloaded the information you need.

Hobie Craft--Don't take my word for it. As you say, I'm not an expert, so I have only my own experience and info from the Samsung company. Here is the link to Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 overview, features, tech specs, support. If you can find anything there, anything, about 3g/4g connectivity point it out. Go to Support and ask them about 3g/4g connectivity on the Galaxy Tab 3. http://www.samsung.com/latin_en/consumer/mobile-devices/tablets/galaxy-tab/SM-T3100ZWAEON

If you can find anything saying that Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 tablet has 3g/4g connectivity I'll buy you a beer or 2 in Sweden.

This is an important point because if, as you claim the GPS will not function with out 3g/4g connectivity, then it is worthless throughout much of the Everglades where phone service is not available. I say the beauty of this tablet, iPads, and many smartphones and the Navionics App, is that they do not need phone/Wi-Fi connectivity for the GPS to allow the user to use the App to navigate throughout the Everglades. That is an incredible capability.

To use the Navionics App, you need any internet connection to download charts--done automatically without user intervention. Once the charts are downloaded, the on-board GPS will show your location on those charts without any Wi-Fi or 3g/4g connection. That makes the Galaxy tablet and the Navionics Marine&Lakes USA App extremely useful.

We may have a little language problem here, and we may be largely in agreement. It is simply the claim that a phone connection is required for the GPS to work properly that I am in total disagreement.

When you say "...the gps will not be very functional, even if it can give you your coordinates," you concede that the Galaxy tablet GPS with the Navionic Apps can be used for navigation. The GPS provides the coordinates of your location and the app provides the maps and software to use the coordinates. That is exactly how a car GPS navigation system or a handheld GPS works. The 4g/3g question becomes moot.

There is a parallel discussion on the WaterTribe forum: http://watertribe.org/forums/topic/new-to-tablets-but-here-is-a-tablet-app-worth-checking-out
This is a quote from a post today: "Also, I can attest the app works well without cell phone reception. In last year's EC Coastie and I were becalmed a few miles offshore of the Everglades near Ponce De Leon Bay and I used the App to ensure we were "drifting" the right direction."

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Bob, I'm going to have to take some time to digest what you have said. Be back later.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:18 pm 
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Keith:
I'll throw some of the crab boil food into one of those bags and throw it in the freezer, when I see you at Ft Desoto in March, we can throw it in your jet boil ( I'm interested in getting one), and you can test it out yourself.

Just thinking out loud here (totally untested, and I honestly know nothing about that stuff), but what if you were to cook up all your food in advance, store it in these vacuum storage bags, then sterilize the bags (with the contents vacuum sealed in the bags) just like they do when canning. The result would be MRE type meals that if not refrigerated (they would of course start out frozen) would remain safe to eat for at least a few days even if they thawed out and got warm (maybe even a week or two).

I'm of course not into any of this stuff at all, but am just thinking out loud here, and I know those MRE type camping meals that you can buy are pretty expensive, basically you would be making your own, probably using the same methods they use to sterilize the food (if it's not irradiated).

Just some ideas, I'm sure I'm not the first to think of something like this. I just did a quick search and there is tons of this type of survival stuff out there ( http://modernsurvivalonline.com/homemade-mre/)
Good luck
Bob

Edit: Keith too late somebody already ate the rest of that crab boil leftovers while I was typing this.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:25 pm 
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That's pretty graphic, Bob. I'm glad we are done with that "Dildo Key" thing. I will look into these vacuum seal things when my own drab meals get tiresome.

Thanks to Russ and Bob.

Keith

PS We do have to be a bit careful about leaving stuff at room temperature. We wouldn't want anyone to come down with a serious case of food poisoning. My wife, Nancy, is a dietitian/nutritionist, and I'll have to check some of this stuff out with her. She is out skiing in New Mexico for a few weeks.

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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