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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 5:39 am 
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Location: South Florida
Hi Tony,

Those bungee cord metal clamps (aka hog rings) I used were stainless steel, and, while they work fine, they are hard to manage. So, I have also switched to zip-ties--made by Coolaroo--I figure they may be more sun-resistant.

Yes, it is very difficult to attach the Coolaroo clips through 2 layers of sun-shade fabric. I cut the fabric at the corners & sew it so that the clips punch through a single layer of fabric.

I like the miniskirt design (especially mounted on bow posts) because it does not aggravate bow dives. Speaking of AI diving, I have greatly minimized that. Earlier on this thread, I complained greatly about bow diving--it was a real problem when expedition-loaded. See http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=90 Now, a combination of (1) loading some gear on the hakas, (2) putting heavy gear in a large dry bag placed in the stern storage area behind the seat, and (3) placing 16-24 liters of water behind the seat & in the stern hatch, has essentially eliminated diving on my AI. The occasional dive does not go very deep. In addition to reducing diving (no longer a problem), that loading also keeps the bow up, and cutting waves is less of a problem. Hopefully, the 2015 Hobie AI model will effectively address the diving problem. We can hope, can't we? I'm thinking of buying 1, maybe 2, new AIs next Fall, depending on how Hobie modifies their 2015 model. If they don't change the hull/amas on the AI, I'm going to seriously consider a different boat. The Weta is an interesting possibility. More on that later.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Thanks Keith, I checked and was reassured to see that my zip-ties are UV resistant too.

I discovered that the best was to fit the clips was to first melt small holes through the multiple layers at the corners, so that the longer pins would engage, and then squeeze the smaller pins with pliers. I heated up the end of an allen key and pushed it easily through the material.

My set turned out to be a little smaller than yours (my folds were bigger due to clumsy hands :)), and extend about 4 inches less towards the amas, but I suspect they should work anyway.

It was great that I coincidently found a local upholsterer, who stitched up my pieces, and he is interested in sewing others together at a pretty reasonable price.

Photos to follow!

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Bring on the pictures!

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:02 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Taken from my phone, so not too flash, but here are the shots. To date, I haven't raised the front attachment, but I dropped the rear, so the skirt doesn't touch the knuckle at rest.
Image
Front
Image
Rear
Image
Forward mounting

Time will tell if I have made it too short. I have double thickness shade cloth in a triangle just in front of the akas.

My upholsterer tells me that he can fit 1/2 inch stainless eyelets in the corners, and I suspect there will be plenty of surface area. I cut this one out myself from shadecloth I had to hand, but he tells me that he will cut edges with a heat gun, which will be much better. My friend Bazza is up for getting one for his AI (I don't believe there is any need for different sizes for TIs and AIs with these shorter skirts, as the critical measurement is the distance from the aka. The forward mounting can be placed according to the length of the front bungee or vice versa!)

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:34 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Looks Good Tony!

Double thickness shade-cloth could be too much, if it slows down the air going through and water draining from the top, but time will tell.

We haven't offered the "Mini-Skirt" size with our Sprayskirt kits, as it requires drilling and mounting extra hardware to the boat to use them, that most new owners aren't comfortable with. My full Sprayskirts design can temporary become mini's, by placing a wire-tie on each side near the front of the front hatch to bunch the shade-cloth together.

Your boat does look nice with it on there!

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Thanks Bob!

The double thickness area is a triangle only about 15 inches long and 6 inches high at the inner edge. You can just make it out in the photo from the front.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 5:18 am 
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Nice job, Tony! I don't think the doubling patch will cause any problem. Also, because the tandem bow rides higher, you probably will not need the bow-post attachment which I have on my AI. If you load your boat down on your next camping, especially the bow area, you may find a lot of water coming over the bow. That is when the bow-post attachment and wave deflector come in handy. Still, give your current arrangement a try, it may work out perfectly.

I have gone back to my original rear point of attachment on the cockpit coaming. I'm using the "original" point of attachment rather than the "new," after deciding the "new" point caused the skirt to ride too low, and, with a loaded AI, would be skimming the water and creating drag.

Image

Getting back to the doubling of material in front of the aka joint, it serves 2 purposes: (1) protects the skirt from wear at the aka joint, and (2) it reduces the amount of water being forced up through the skirt immediately in front of the joint, thereby reducing splashes from this source.

With these skirts, I find that most splashes do not reach beyond your knees. I'll be interested in hearing your experiences.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 1:25 am 
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Location: Salem, Oregon USA
I recommend buying the TI, for solo expedition trips, for these reasons:
1- A luxurious amount of cargo space for above-board dry bags in the forward area.
2- Increased waterline means increased speed (sailing fact), especially if balanced by seating yourself in the rear and your cargo forward.
3- Captain comfort, staying more dry and with less sea motion in the stern.
4- Pitch your tent on it! (equipped with tramps) incredibly comfortable and expands your camping options exponentially.
5- You can transport an unpredicted passenger when needed, which has happened to me more times then I can count.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:33 am 
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YakAttaque wrote:
I recommend buying the TI, for solo expedition trips, for these reasons:
1- A luxurious amount of cargo space for above-board dry bags in the forward area.
2- Increased waterline means increased speed (sailing fact), especially if balanced by seating yourself in the rear and your cargo forward.
3- Captain comfort, staying more dry and with less sea motion in the stern.
4- Pitch your tent on it! (equipped with tramps) incredibly comfortable and expands your camping options exponentially.
5- You can transport an unpredicted passenger when needed, which has happened to me more times then I can count.

I certainly have my own biases based on where and how I sail and camp. Therefore, I'm wondering.
    (1) Have you ever camped with your TI where there were significant tide changes, say greater than a meter?
    (2) Have you ever experienced significant wave action (like along a coastal area) when camping on your TI?
    (3) Would you make the same recommendations for a person who usually launches from a beach and prefers camping on shore to camping on a TI/AI?
    (4) Have you ever hauled your TI loaded with camping gear up a beach (> 5' vertical) to get it above high tide line?
    (5) Have you used an AI on camping trips?
    (6) Do you think you could carry enough camping gear/supplies for an extended expedition on an AI?
    (7) Do you think a tent could be pitched on an AI?
    (8) Do you think you could stay sufficiently dry using a dry suit or dry pants with integral socks & anorak top on an AI?
    (9) Would you make the same recommendation for a solo woman?
    (10) Would you make the same recommendation for a person over 70? 65? 60?
    (11) Would you recommend the solo TI over an AI for the 300 mile, saltwater coastal WaterTribe Everglades Challenge?

BTW, YakAttaque, I missed your videos which you posted about sailing on fresh water in Oregon, but I've caught up on them--excellent!

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:25 am 
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Unfortunately, the winds around here have not been strong enough to put my miniskirts to a proper test, but I have now added the "wave-buster" bar in front of the hatch, which raises the front mount of the skirts, to complement the lowered rear mounting. Due to the greater freeboard of the TI, I have not noticed the rear mounts getting into the bow wave.
Image
As can be seen from this angle, the miniskirts have a pronounced "nose-up" stance.
Image
As I noticed that there is a gap between the hull and the inside of the skirts, I have added some 1000# dyeema across just behind the hatch, to keep both skirts from moving outwards due to wave pressure (you can just make out this cord in the side-on frame-grab. A small addition which has not been tested as yet.
Image

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Just be careful that the 'Skirt' doesn't rub up against the sheet-line near the forward pulley. They will quickly wear each other. I use a wire-tie to connect mine to the front of the pulley on that side so it can't touch the sheet-line.

Next I'll expect to see on your boat a windshield :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:12 am 
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I checked that Bob, and there is plenty of clearance, In addition, the lateral dyeema line keeps both skirts stable in the middle where the mainsheet is.

I already have a windshield, just a tiny tiny 2 inch high one :lol:

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:11 am 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Nice bit of work Tony. Look forward to seeing it in the flesh.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:48 am 
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Yes, Tony, nice work. I love that "WaveBuster." It will do the job.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:18 am 
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Took a clearer photo today. The forecast was for 23 knots, so I headed out onto the lake, aiming to use the area with the biggest open stretch so the waves could get a chance to build, set up my video camera for good side-on shots and... Parked at a shore for 90 minutes looking out at a glassy lake, and after 5 hours, headed back to the ramp, whereupon the wind picked up just enough to make getting the TI back on the trailer a bit of wsork... Bummer.
Image

Also, here is the double bungee set-up for my akas, thanks to changeman's inspiration.
Image

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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