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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:44 am 
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Posts: 1207
Location: sarasota,fl
Tony:
I have a similar double bungy setup on my TI. But instead of a big honking metal bracket I just used a small piece of spectra rudder string in a cinch knot. Since I always have lots of things attached to those cleats on the aka bars ( ie... Spray skirts, boarding ladder, tramps, AMA bungys, etc) I can attach all my stuff and will have room for more. Looping the string over the cleat doesn't seem to take any longer than before. It's actually pretty amazing to me that the spectra string is rated at over 300 lbs ( each strand x 2 equals 600 lbs) yet that metal cleat you have in the pic looks like the ones I buy and the package says 530 lbs (less).
I've been running the spectra double bungy setup for over a year now with no issues, and am able to climb in and out if the boat by sitting on the AMA (which I couldn't do before). Plus when we are out snorkeling I have people sitting on the AMA's all the time now.
We pretty much use our TI as our mother ship where we launch from Higgs beach (on the south side of Key West island in Florida) and go out just off shore for the afternoon. I usually tow out our 4 person raft filled with coolers of food and gear, we also have a few inflatable kayaks that I tow out, along with other kayaks that people may have, we call it our party barge.
Actually I'm thinking about making a big sun shade (like an easy up) that we can erect once we get out there and anchored, ( probably a re-purposed tent fly).
We kind of do the same thing up here in sarasota but the destination is usually sand bars where we meet up with our powerboating friends.
We basically still do all the same stuff we used to do with our Sea Ray powerboat, just take us a little longer to get there ( lol). Instead of cruising at 30mph and spending $40 bucks in fuel, we cruise at 10 mph and it costs me a buck.
The really cool part is with the power boat we could only access 10% of the inter coastal (pretty much have to stay in channels). With the TI I can reach 90% of the areas.
I guess that makes my TI a po mans powerboat (lol). Sorry for drifting off topic.
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:20 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Gee Bob, they are not really THAT big! :D . What I like about them though, is that they are easy to undo with any multi-tool, and as I now carry a couple of spares in my safety kit, it is a cinch to undo the shackle and unscrew the broken bungee and screw in a replacement. I would also suggest that the breaking strain of the SS shackle is more thn adequate.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:39 pm 
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Location: South Florida
Terrific "Wave Buster", Tony. And, both you and Bob have nice "double bungee" systems. My double bungee system is U-G-L-Y in comparison. Still, the one thing I like about mine is it uses 2 top hats, so every thing on my U-G-L-Y system is doubled.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Location: South Florida
How to Include Pictures (Images) in Your Hobie Forum Post--Step by Step Instructions

The Hobie forums are very well managed, however, they do not “host” pictures (images.) Therefore, you must store your photos on a photo hosting site such as Photobucket http://s239.photobucket.com/ PB is free up to a fairly generous storage limit. You must “Sign Up” initially. The Sign Up page looks like this,

Image


Once you are signed in, the Log In page looks like this. I believe you can use your "username" in place of your email to log in.

Image


Once logged in, Your Bucket page looks like this,

Image


Pick off the upper menu item “Library.” Your Library page will look something like this,

Image


Now you are ready to upload pictures to your Photobucket and insert them into your Hobie Forum post.

    • Upload your pictures onto PB. This is a simple drag (from your computer photo folder) and drop (into your Photobucket Library folder.) STOP! TIP: Before you load any pictures into your PB, it is a good idea to organize your photos into albums (folders). So, pick off “Create New Album” button, give it a name, and put your pictures into that. The majority of my PB pictures are in albums, but 264 are in my PB general bucket, and occasionally I have to look through all of them to find a picture.
    • Slide your pointer over a photo and you will see a "gear" icon appear in the upper right corner.
    • Slide your pointer over the gear icon and a menu will appear.
    • From the menu, pick off "links" with your left pointer button.
    • A window will appear with 4 URL options. Click the "Direct" link with your left pointer button--momentarily a "copied" appears. You have now copied the link.
    • Paste the link into your Hobie forum post.
    • When the "Direct" link is pasted into your Hobie forum post, highlight it, and click on the "Img" button above to complete the job. When your post is previewed or submitted, your picture (on Photobucket) will appear in your post.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:57 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Salem, Oregon USA
Chekika wrote:
YakAttaque wrote:
I recommend buying the TI, for solo expedition trips, for these reasons:
1- A luxurious amount of cargo space for above-board dry bags in the forward area.
2- Increased waterline means increased speed (sailing fact), especially if balanced by seating yourself in the rear and your cargo forward.
3- Captain comfort, staying more dry and with less sea motion in the stern.
4- Pitch your tent on it! (equipped with tramps) incredibly comfortable and expands your camping options exponentially.
5- You can transport an unpredicted passenger when needed, which has happened to me more times then I can count.

I certainly have my own biases based on where and how I sail and camp. Therefore, I'm wondering.
    (1) Have you ever camped with your TI where there were significant tide changes, say greater than a meter?
    (2) Have you ever experienced significant wave action (like along a coastal area) when camping on your TI?
    (3) Would you make the same recommendations for a person who usually launches from a beach and prefers camping on shore to camping on a TI/AI?
    (4) Have you ever hauled your TI loaded with camping gear up a beach (> 5' vertical) to get it above high tide line?
    (5) Have you used an AI on camping trips?
    (6) Do you think you could carry enough camping gear/supplies for an extended expedition on an AI?
    (7) Do you think a tent could be pitched on an AI?
    (8) Do you think you could stay sufficiently dry using a dry suit or dry pants with integral socks & anorak top on an AI?
    (9) Would you make the same recommendation for a solo woman?
    (10) Would you make the same recommendation for a person over 70? 65? 60?
    (11) Would you recommend the solo TI over an AI for the 300 mile, saltwater coastal WaterTribe Everglades Challenge?

BTW, YakAttaque, I missed your videos which you posted about sailing on fresh water in Oregon, but I've caught up on them--excellent!

Keith


Keith,

Thanks, it's good to hear someone watches my youtube vids :)
A few of your questions seem to point toward getting the TI above the high tide line. I agree this can be a problem. I usually unload mine before hand, then lift one end and drag, drop, lift the other end, etc. until I feel comfortable with the height, then I tie it to something secure in case i misjudged or it's hit by a micro-burst. I've never attempted to sleep on it while it's afloat, so wave action isn't keeping me awake.

I've never used an AI, I do have a hobie mirage with a sail which I've used for week-end trips, so I know an AI is more then adequate, but for 7-days or more, the TI is perfect. I think you could pitch a tent on an AI, I'm not certain but I think they use the same tramp size. The TI weighs a ton, even with the caddie on, so if there is going to be a lot of land distance, no boat ramp, the AI would probably work better. If your wearing a dry suit, you will need to be soaked just to keep from overheating, I have one but only use it when its cold and I'm sitting in the front seat of the TI.

Being in Oregon, I haven't done the Everglades Challenge, but if I were, and I had the choice, I would go with the TI, because of the dryer ride and longer waterline.

In 2 weeks I start a 2 week-long trip from northern Vancouver Island, where there are 23 foot tides (2nd biggest in the world), almost all 'beaches' are rocks covered with slick seaweed, and one my have a small surf to deal with. My plan is to pack in such a way that I can offload/onload easily, to lighten the yak. I'll update on how it went.

YakAttaque


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
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Location: South Florida
YakAttaque, I'm looking forward to hear about your Vancouver Island trip. I'm sure it will be interesting.

My concern with using a TI for serious solo expedition trips is weight. Period.

    First, my observation with people using a TI for camping is that they tend to bring even more stuff than AI campers. Considering that I bring just about everything except the kitchen sink on my AI, that is saying something. My rule when camping (which I should follow more carefully) is "Less is more!" That is the less you bring, the easier it is to pack/unpack, and the easier it is to find things. Those simplifying steps mean you can enjoy your trip more.

    2nd, you can easily bring everything you need for an extended camp trip on an AI including all your water--why bring more? Along Vancouver Island, you can probably find fresh water, which is not the case in the Everglades. Again, why bring more? The AI has plenty of room.

    3rd, using paddle pants with integral socks and an anorak, I can easily stay dry on my AI during any trip. If it is warm, I remove the anorak & splash water on the pants. I know guys who "live" in their dry suits during the WaterTribe Everglades Challenge. Your dry suit/pants must be breathable.

    4th, even the designer of the AI and TI, Jim Czarnowski, used an AI on his last 2 Everglades Challenge trips--that is a pretty strong endorsement of the AI on extended camping trips.

    5th, yes, the TI is faster and that is very nice, but, you pay for that speed over the AI in extra weight on the TI. When I do a solo camp trip on my AI, I'm carrying between 125-150# of gear & supplies/water. When I arrive at a beach to camp, I immediately unload heavy stuff--water in Dromedary bags, cooler, 1 haka (for a table), tent, and kitchen bag. When I begin to pull my partially loaded AI up the beach above the high tide line, my AI will weigh at least 140-150#. At my age, that is a tough. I time my arrival at my camping beach to avoid low tide. Still, I'm usually looking at hauling my AI up 3-5' vertical. With a partially loaded TI, my guess is you would be looking at pulling 225# and more up that beach--I know I could not do that. From your videos, Yak, you look fairly young--50 yrs maybe? Yes, you can probably pull your TI up a beach to get it above a high tide line. However, I question whether a woman or 65 yr. old male could do it.

Regarding setting up a tent on either an AI or TI, that can certainly be done and has been done. However, camping on an AI or TI along coastal Everglades (or any coastal region) has its own set of problems (hazards) and inconveniences. We'll have to have that discussion another time.

Keith

PS I forgot to mention that Dogslife (see another post about him http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=52088&p=238289#p238289) did his first Everglades Challenge in a Tandem--he did not finish, which is not unusual for a first timer. However, he subsequently bought and used an AI in the last 3 Everglades Challenges and set a number of records.

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:54 am 
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Location: South Florida
AI/TI Use in the Puget Sound Area of Washington State—A User’s Perspective


On another thread, (Broken rudder solutions, viewtopic.php?f=71&p=238144#p238144), Puget (aka Brian Heath)) discussed the problems of using an AI/TI in the beautiful Puget Sound area. I felt his thoughtful comments backed up by experience, might be useful to persons thinking of sailing and camping in the area. Highlights and bold print in Puget’s quotes are mine.

Interestingly, YakAttaque in a couple posts above has said that he will be doing a camping trip on his TI off the north end of Vancouver Island--even greater tide changes than those in Puget Sound. Presumably, he is planning to sleep on his boat. I'm looking forward to his trip report.

Puget wrote:
Chekika wrote:
Brian--how do you launch and land with such large tide changes? Do you camp with those tide changes?

Keith

First, a confession. I've never camped with my TI. Just day trips. Thus, big tide changes are not a serious problem. I also launch from a trailer and a boat launch. The only problem there is the end of the ramp at low tide. Last week the water was 10 feet away from the end of my local ramp when my wife and I got there. I backed the trailer over the broken concrete right at the end and out onto the mud. A big shove slid the TI off enough to put the back into the water floating. Another shove and I could lower the bow by hand. And, no competition from boaters with 4,000 lb boats.

Other times and other launches I've waited a few hours. One time while several of us were waiting, a man drove up in a pickup with an open boat filled with crab pots. Water was 30 or 40 feet from the end of the ramp. He backed down, then put on boots and walked around in the mud for 10 minutes feeling out the soft and hard places. Satisfied, he got back in the truck, backed out onto the mud - not in a straight line. Launched and drove back to the parking lot. Piece of cake. Not for me.

Current is the big tidal problem for me. Bigger the tidal change the bigger the current. Mostly that means careful planning to be going the right directions at the right times, and not go near the narrows with its 4 kn currents on a flood tide.

Pulling up on a beach on a day trip is not so much a tide problem as a wave problem with barnacle covered rocks grinding away at the bottom of the boat.

So, here are my thoughts about camping. I'd be curious to know how other Hobie Island people actually do it -- as well as sailing skiffs etc.

After kayaking and TI-ing for a decade around South Puget Sound, here is my description of a typical shoreline. The landscape is mostly low coastal mountains that are flooded so that the valley floors are under water. Some old beaches are superimposed on this, but mostly steep forested hills come right down to the water. At high tide the waves splash around tree roots, fallen trees, tilted trees undercut by waves, upturned stumps, and logs that broke loose from timber company log rafts being towed by tug boats to a mill. Trees around here are often 3 to 6 feet in diameter -- sometimes much bigger -- but those days are mostly gone.

That's all a way of saying that walking along a beach at high tide is difficult to impossible. Walking inland would probably require rope climbing gear to go up the steep hills. If you came straight into the beach with a TI the person in the front would step out in 1 to 3 feet of water. The person in the back would step out in 2 to 4 feet of water. Perhaps you could pull into a tangle of trees and stretch a hammock between branches over the boat. But wave action would grind away at the boat hull.

Low tide will give you 30 to 100 feet of exposed rocks on a fairly steep slope. There are a number of sandy beach areas -- but I'd never count on just finding one in the next 5 miles. Put another way, pulling the boat up on the beach will not give you any advantage for camping in most places. Anchoring out would mean swimming in.

Another problem: Most land is privately owned, including the beach. Simply standing there is illegal. However, most water front houses are way up on a steep forested hill with no way to get down or to see the beach. I think most boaters ignore the law for brief day use -- unless the houses are right down next to the beach. Those of course are the areas where there is more level ground, including level beaches and sand. That is, the good camping spaces were taken 100 years earlier.

Brian

Puget wrote:
Sheltered bays. There are a number of these around Puget Sound. Gig Harbor and nearby Wollochet Bay are examples. Gig Harbor was named because the entrance is too narrow for Captain George Vancouver's big ship to enter. So he anchored outside the harbor and rowed in on his gig. Or so the myth goes. It is a mile plus long and 100 yards to about 600 yards wide. Very sheltered. One side is the village of Gig Harbor and wall to wall marinas with 2 public docks with public restrooms. The other side is big houses. You can anchor anywhere, and all kinds of boats often do. Yesterday was a holiday and there were 15 or 20 boats anchored out. They varied from 12 feet to 60 or 70 feet. Some were rafted up. The public dock -- free tie ups for a week or so I think -- was pretty much full with some rafting up. Many - including kayaks and small wooden sailing boats - were there for a weekly concert at the end of the dock.

If you can sleep on your Hobie, camping is possible. With either a dock or anchor the tide change is unimportant. But, of course, nothing remotely resembling a natural wilderness experience.

I've often wondered about making a marina to marina trip around Puget Sound. I presume that one could pay a marina for a slip and walk or get a ride to a motel. Probably even easier in Florida than here to do urban vacationing from a Hobie. There are wonderful waterfront communities here in Olympia, Tacoma, Seattle, Edmonds, Kingston, Bainbridge Island, Vashon Island, and many other places. I'm curious if anyone has ever thought of waterfront hostels for small craft owners. Probably not enough money from our kind.

Sheltered bays, like sandy beaches, are great places to build houses and business, and towns and public parks. Thus, the good camping spots were taken 100 years ago. Wollochet Bay has a pretty solid residential shoreline.

Brian

Puget wrote:
Public Lands. While most of the Puget Sound shore is private, there are significant public lands. There are also timber company owned lands, and privately owned lands with no development. Thus, much of the shoreline does look -- well I can't think of the right word. It is not "wilderness." It is not even "remote", though a lot of it looks like that to the untrained eye. Thick forests over 100 feet high can hide a lot of development. Perhaps "natural appearing" would be a good phrase. Unfortunately, that is as good as it gets for much of the world's shoreline.

It is in many ways natural. Some of the forests along Puget Sound shores have 100 to 500 year old Doug fir, hemlock, and red cedar. Black bear are common. Saw a pile of bear poop on the sidewalk near McDonald's the other day. Saw a black bear near my house a few months ago. Cougars are around.

Anyway, much of that natural land is pretty much up a very steep hill above the water. There are a few exceptions in county and state parks -- Harstine Island, Penrose SP, Kopachuck SP, Deception Pass, for example. Camping is only permitted in campgrounds, and they are not at the waterfront. There is a "Water Trail Association" - I think that is the right name - that maintains campgrounds for kayakers around the Sound. I've seen 2 of the campsites and neither would work for me with a TI. One requires carrying your yak from an unsheltered shore up a steep winding forest trail about 50 yards. Great kayak racks once you get there. Great campsite for 30 year old muscle men with 40 lb kayaks.

The other requires crossing 100 yds or so of mud and rock at low tide and then climbing over a 5 foot bank and then crossing a lawn and going a few yards down a forest trail. Putting the camp in the forest keeps what could be a sheltered anchorage out of sight.

Brian


All AI/TI wilderness camping has its dangers. In Florida, it might be alligators/crocodiles/snakes/sharks/heat/lack of fresh water/storms. In the Northwest, like off Washington State/Vancouver Island, it is bears/tides/currents/storms/hypothermia. It would seem any AI/TI camping trip in coastal Northwest would need to be carefully thought out.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:11 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Thanks for that compilation Keith! It has opened my eyes as to just how much we are spoiled here in our end of the world. I would have to describe the majority of the shoreline in the many lakes and bays as "almost deserted" by comparison.

Just as an example, my local lake, which is 74km2 in area, has just four "townships" on its shores (3 of which are just clusters of a few houses), and the local authorities have built 4-5 picnic spots on uninhabited islands, with covered picnic tables, open spaces for a fire, and eco-toilets.

And that is just one of the "civilised" lakes! Most have even more amenities for the waterborne camper as can be seen from the map
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/mya ... l-park/map.

Here in Australia, we also have the rule that private property only extended down to the high water mark, which opens up[ many other possibilities for brief stops, even in areas which are fully built out (such as Sydney Harbour etc). Even there though, there are pockets of national park with deserted sandy beaches...

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:24 am 
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Yes, Tony, you Aussies have it pretty good. An island not much smaller than the US but with 1/15th the people (+ twice that many kangaroos.) Enjoy!

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:29 am 
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Location: sarasota,fl
Keith:
I hate to interject politics into this but I feel Aussie's have it right (unless you are of Australian heritage, or of the same crown, it's impossible to move to Australia, this is the way most every other country in the world works, it's only the US that has totally transparent borders and anyone is free to come sneak in here as they please and live at the expense of the rest of us. If things were right Australia would be 1/10 our population (not 1/15th). My opinion this is way wrong and we are all dang fools for allowing this to happen. I should know I'm an immigrant myself and it took my whole family ten long years of hard work to get to America legally through the legal immigration process from Britain ( I was born along the way in Canada (same crown)), and am pretty upset that others can't do the same. The Aussies have it right in my opinion. Most Americans are either oblivious, just don't care, or are just plain stupid to the fact which is even sadder (so far beyond a screwed up system, the rest of the world just laughs at us, and our own un-doing).
Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:06 am 
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Location: South Florida
Yes, politics is hard to resist nowadays in the US. The world is in great turmoil. Years ago I used to say, "the only thing certain is change." It is more true than ever. At one time we (the US) were fairly isolated. The Aussies are enjoying a fair amount of isolation.

Still, we've kept this forum fairly politics/religion free. I hope it stays that way. It is a forum about AI/TIs. Environmental issues creep in occasionally, because the boats are used in an outdoor setting.

People have their opinion, and we certainly have to give them that space.

Bob, your opinions are always welcome and appreciated.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
Our politicians love over-population. They're willing to ruin everything that has been built up by nature and by man to be kind to anyone who wants to live in Sweden, even if the people coming is fundamentalistic analphabetics that mutilate their own women. They don't care if we neither can build apartments, schools or hospitals for the new comers and don't have professionals for the schools and hospitals. They don't care if they can't find people jobs. They don't care for tax payers. They care about nothing but being kind to foreigners. Even the party that once was conservative doesn't seem to give a (censored) about the people that inherited this country. Seems like they want global anarchy.

Let it be clear that it is not well-educated and wealthy people moving here. They're not even fleeing because they have been fighting for democracy in an oppressive country.


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