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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2394
Location: Escondido
skymax wrote:
OK, I can see everyone is lining up against me because I once again dared to be an individual and make a decision for myself that would not be in line with the status quo.
On the contrary Max, you're a valued and highly respected member of this forum community. Unaware that you had actual experience with the boat, I think there was a concern that your expectations were met (not that its anybody's business how you spend your money) so that you had a realistic idea of what you were getting ahead of time.

That being resolved, I'd like to learn more about your experiences with the Propel. We don't see them out here in San Diego at all (except for the one I broke :lol: ). Kudos to Mr. Zimmerman and his company for investing in the Propel concept. Innovation (and competition) is good for us all. I hope you're well pleased with your new toy! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Ontario, Canada
I have to agree with Roadrunner. I didn't mean to disagree or line up against anyone. I thought that your contribution to this thread was very helpful. You are right, I didn't know of the self bailing version of the Propel kayaks, they were not available when I was looking. I'm still happy with my Revolution but I can see how the fishing versions of the Propel boats compare favourably to Mirage Drive boats, especially the Pro Angler.

I appreciate all that you've contributed!

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:35 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
skymax wrote:
As another Hobie user said, Fluttering the Mirage fins in shallow water doesn't take you far or fast


Just trying to keep the facts straight because people do cruise our forums researching a purchase. Its not about lining up against skymax.

Yes, you can go fast... and far with short pedal strokes. This specific difference between the two products (shallow draft capability of the Hobie MirageDrive) is huge.

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:02 pm 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 128
Location: AUS: Sydney midweek - Murrumbateman weekends
If you can afford one of each - go for it. If budget is critical go Mirage. If you already have something else - make the most of what you have got ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Thanks for the balance, I guess I was too defensive.
After a good nights sleep I realise that Darth Hobie will not destroy my home planet because I might be rebel scum. :wink:

The component breaking is not good news, even though I don't do shallow water, if it broke as easily as the report indicated I will wait until the issue is resolved before pulling the trigger, drives being damaged by impact is one thing but boat hulls are another.

I wish that Pro Angler seat fitted on my Revo. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
mmiller wrote:
skymax wrote:
As another Hobie user said, Fluttering the Mirage fins in shallow water doesn't take you far or fast


Just trying to keep the facts straight because people do cruise our forums researching a purchase. Its not about lining up against skymax.

Yes, you can go fast... and far with short pedal strokes. This specific difference between the two products (shallow draft capability of the Hobie MirageDrive) is huge.


Definitely a unique and handy feature, maybe I should try more shallow water and experience it.

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hi Skymax,

I'm starting a new thread to talk about the wet seat in a Revo. I'm curious to see what others have to say about this.

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
It's an SOT kayak with a moulded-in seat at the waterline so I expect it to be wet, I voyage in the Tropics so its not a problem but i understand someone living in North USA would be more concerned about staying dry and warmer.

Best solution is a Kokatat semi-dry Paddle Suit, or similar kayak Pants, these are much easier to don than wetsuits and you can stay on cold water for hours snug, dry and warm. Not a huge expense compared to all the other kit we buy for our hobby.

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Contacted my reliable kayak dealer about the failure and here is what they said:

"Hi max,
I was informed on tuesday, but that is the sit-on top version,
on either end of where the bar that supports the propel is a plastic
peice which acts as a shock absorber, thus when it hits hard it gives way,
all replaced under warrenty and the distributers are working with Native
to find a solution.
DOES NOT happen with the sit in Ultimate version you are looking at as the bar that
supports the propel is mounted into the sides of the craft. ONLY affects the Mariner
sit-on top.

Hope that has eased your concerns."


Phew. it's not my model, NW have a free upgrade policy for mods like Hobie do so I guess those ppl will be looked after.

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:07 am
Posts: 598
Location: Punta Gorda, FL
skymax wrote:
As another Hobie user said, Fluttering the Mirage fins in shallow water doesnt take you far or fast, thats why both Hobie and Propel have Paddles, I don't have any reason to deliberately steer into water that is too shallow for either system.


I have lots of reasons to get into very shallow water, and do it all the time. Even if you pole the boat along in shallow water, the proximity of the bottom creates extra drag and kayaks don't go as fast. Paddles don't work well in shallow water because you can't submerge them. Fluttering the Mirage Drive fins doesn't work nearly as well as taking full strokes, but it is the fastest way to cover some ground if the bottom is wrong to get out and wade. In some places around here, you'll sink to your waist in stuff that's like tar, but stickier and stinkier.


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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:19 pm 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 46
Location: Naples, FL
When I started my quest to buy a kayak I actually started with the Native line. I really came close to purchasing an Ultimate 14.5 and I liked the 16 as well. Then I tested the “Ultimate Propel” and instantly fell in love. It was just as rugged as the 14.4 and was easy to use. I actually put a down payment on the craft, THEN, I tested the Hobie Adventure a few days later… needless to say I switched my down payment to the Hobie.
All the scientific reasoning and and justifications are wonderful and well thought out but the bottom line is that as a “craft”, as a whole package, the Hobie is far superior and is so on many levels, most of which have already been explained here.
Would I love to have an “Ultimate”? YOU BETCHA! They are awesome boats and fun to run, and I am certain there will be one in my future…
But, do I think they are a better boat than the Hobie, not a chance!
And I will point out the single biggest factor that keeps Hobie number one in my mind,
“WIND POWER”
I can’t tell you how happy I am to be sailing again, and it is a no brainer to have three modes of propulsion for your craft!


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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:04 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:35 am
Posts: 4
I have owned a Native Ultimate 14.5, another 14.5 with the Propel, a Mariner 12.5 and couple Hobies. I am not going to debate the styles of propulsion, just the way my warranty was denied on my Propel due to a crack on the clamp attached to the thwart tube. Mine was one of the early models.
If you think I am biased, just do a search on google.
I was told the crack was customer abuse! I had to pay wholesale for a new unit and my old one was not returned to me.
I can buy individual componets for the Mirage drive, try that with a Propel. I was quoted retail price of $800.00.
I enjoyed the Native crafts, just had trouble with warranty and the fact that no store is local to me any more. I still own a Native Versa board, nothing else on the marked like it and it suits my purpose of stand up fishing.


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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:16 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Lexington, NC
I have had an Ultimate propel for over a year now. With the old style prop, and nothing to stop cavitation, I questioned my purchase. However after I upgraded the prop to the ez cruze, and made a number of other home grown mods that took many hours, I finally got it all to work properly and less risk of failure. After all that I have grown to really like it for fishing because reverse dose come in handy and there are things I like about the boat in self.

However if I knew then what I know now, before I ever had any foot powered boat, and could only have one, I would have went with only a Hobie. Biggest reasons are that Hobies are by far better suited for sailing. Sit on tops are far safer for winter fishing in event of capsize because there is no way to recover if it fills with water over your head. The propel will only accommodate a minimum of a medium sized person because the seat will only move so close to the fixed peddles and all parts for a mirage drive are easy to get.

In the year after getting the propel, I found a good deals on an outback, and from there, ended up with an oasis and an AI. Now I'm Jonesing for a TI. I need professional help! :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 245
Location: Plant City, Fl.
Guys All products have their place. All have their good and bad points. I have an outback and a TI and when learning with the outback. I thought I love the water because I love to fish, but found out that my fishing was just an excuse to be on the water. I just love to be out there doing anything. With the outback once I was in a hurry to launch and catch up with some friends but I put the mirage drive in backwards and had a bit of a time with the launch. I found that the mirage drive does have reverse. It was not a good or proper launch but my friends did get a great laugh. I still get ribbed about it sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: propel drive system
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1269
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
larryhts:
I use the reverse on my TI all the time. When we go snorkeling or scuba diving we sometimes anchor just off shore from Fort Zachary park on the south side of Key west, the current can be strong there at times so we put one of the mirage drives in backwards (for reverse), get close to rocks, then drop anchor, I pedal in reverse against the current until the anchor sets (my anchor attaches to the rear of my boat) to keep the boat from crashing into the rocks. Then when we are done diving I back the boat up to get over the anchor so we can pull it up. We also sometimes put one mirage drive backwards (just in case) when we are aproaching the dock at the end of Simonton street (where we usually launch), where the current is tricky and the ramp is very narrow and small with a strong cross current and typically lots of waves. I have bumped the dock and broken the AMA shear pins twice now trying to get in there on windy days with a lot of traffic near Mallary Square (where the cruise ships park). It only takes a second or two to spin the drive around for reverse, so anytime I feel I'm going to be in tight quarters, I turn one of the drives around, I find that people frown on you bumping into their million dollar yachts ( LOL). I have also used reverse to hold the boat just off shore, when trying to time my entry into a heavy beach surf.
Keep in mind though that steering only works if the boat is moving, so I often have a paddle in hand to help steer in really tight quarters. With practice you can turn on a dime just like the cruise ships do. I advise anyone who likes to go right next to shore close to big rocks with wind and strong currents to try this, as every one knows the TI is a big boat (largest boat Hobie makes), and maneuvering in tight quarters is not it's strong suit (it has a pretty big turning radius). With two mirage drives, you can have both forward and reverse (depending who is pedaling) anytime you want or need it (probably better steering than a jet ski in close quarters).
Bob


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