Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:12 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:47 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2424
Location: Escondido
TIDALWAVE, my first question -- is the front mast fully seated? I suspect not. You can check this by measuring the length of each mast. Don't be hesitant to put the torque to it. If your Locktite starts to set (or if there is residual Locktite in the threaded area), it can be hard to get the mast all the way in.

But if your masts are of equal length, I would reverse the fins and verify that the tighter fin is now on the rear, which is where I think it would perform better.

Loosening the clew further (so that the mast drops free of the clew outhaul pocket) is good for performance but you may be able to feel the fin flipping and or clacking as it slides across the outhaul. This can be annoying. For this reason, I recommend keeping it in the pocket by 1/8".

Some of the fins, when new, are a little tight along the mast and hard to slide up and down. You can ease this condition with a shot of silicone spray in the mast hole. In time it will start to move easier -- sort of like a break-in period. I don't think this would cause your tightness, but mention it just in case. Let us know what happens.8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:50 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
Quote:
PS: As you may surmise, Drive performance is my favorite topic, but probably boring to most here on the AI forum. Sorry if I get carried away!


Dont apologise Roadrunner - I'm pleased and honoured to discuss drive performance with you. I acquired a Pitot tube today and tried to do some comparisons at different clew tensions, but found I was getting quite varied results from one run to another, even at the same tension and cadence. I might need to get more experience with the Pitot. Also I will try timing over a set distance next time.

Chris

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:37 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 400
Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I bow again to the Mirage Drive wizard!

I installed the rear fin first. When I installed the forward fin, I stopped
torquing the mast when the mast torque equalled the rear. It felt [wrongly] that it was fully seated.
As I mentioned above, I had a 1/4 inch more of exposed length on the fore mast than the rear. Following your advice, I first marked and then removed the fore mast and cleaned out the brass receiver. I micrometered the depth of the receiver and found that the mast had NOT been screwed all the way in, but still had a 1/4 inch left to go. The old
loctite had blocked full entry!
My advice to anyone installing the Turbos is first completely clean out the old loctite (I used a q-tip dipped in isopropol alcohol). Then carefully measure the depth of the receivers before screwing in the masts. Mark that depth on the masts and make certain that the masts are screwed in as close to that depth as possible.
Both of my masts exposed lengths and the gap of the fins to the receivers are now both exactly the same.

I will also follow your advice about varying the tension between the fore and rear fins.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:37 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:36 am
Posts: 840
Location: Gippsland Lakes Victoria Australia
TIDALWAVE wrote:
I bow again to the Mirage Drive wizard!

I installed the rear fin first. When I installed the forward fin, I stopped
torquing the mast when the mast torque equalled the rear. It felt [wrongly] that it was fully seated.
As I mentioned above, I had a 1/4 inch more of exposed length on the fore mast than the rear. Following your advice, I first marked and then removed the fore mast and cleaned out the brass receiver. I micrometered the depth of the receiver and found that the mast had NOT been screwed all the way in, but still had a 1/4 inch left to go. The old
loctite had blocked full entry!
My advice to anyone installing the Turbos is first completely clean out the old loctite (I used a q-tip dipped in isopropol alcohol). Then carefully measure the depth of the receivers before screwing in the masts. Mark that depth on the masts and make certain that the masts are screwed in as close to that depth as possible.
Both of my masts exposed lengths and the gap of the fins to the receivers are now both exactly the same.

I will also follow your advice about varying the tension between the fore and rear fins.


Thanks for the tip Tidalwave - I'm sure Pirate & I will heed your advice when we fit our Turbo fins whenever we receive our backorder. 8) :wink:

Thanks also to Roadrunner for all your very helpful and interesting info. 8) :)
Mickey :D [/img]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:36 am
Posts: 840
Location: Gippsland Lakes Victoria Australia
I removed the standard fins today and installed the Turbos :D
Unfortunately I will not get a chance to try them out for a few days due to other commitments. :cry: I sure am looking forward to it though.

The most difficult part of the installation was removing the original masts.
After trying unsuccesfully using the screwdriver slot and then trying to use vice grips, I sought the assistance of a neighbour who just happens to be an expert on all matters concerning metal.
He quickly solved the problem by putting the mast rod in a large vice that he firstly covered the jaws with two thin stainless steel sheet "pads" (sorry I can't think of a better way to describe them). With the vice holding the rod very tightly, it was n ot too difficult to unscrew them, however they took several turns with the vice before they were free enough to be completely removed with a large screw driver.
We then measured the depth of the hole and I then marked the new masts with a texta (be careful not to rub it off)
I checked both holes for any residual loctite and ensured they were clean before screwing in the new ones. This went much easier than I expected.
All I did was start each one with a screw driver, add a small quantity of loctite and continue screwing them in until they were in as far as the mark I had previously made.
It was a good thing I had measured and marked them because one of them felt like it was correctly seated well before the mark. I had no trouble getting it all the way in using the padded vice in conjunction with a large screw driver (to prevent any turning).
The final steps were no problem whatsoever and I have adjusted the clews in accordance with roadrunners instructions.

I'll let you know what I think of the turbo fins once I've had a chance to try them out.

Mickey


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:02 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2242
Location: Maui, Hawaii
Now just hide Pirate's pair (oops, sorry, only one pair showed up) and you will pedal circles around him :)

With just a little time, you should be able to pedal 6.5kph (4mph) for hours. and almost double that in a sprint.

Kayaking Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:53 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:36 am
Posts: 840
Location: Gippsland Lakes Victoria Australia
reconlon wrote:
Now just hide Pirate's pair (oops, sorry, only one pair showed up) and you will pedal circles around him :)

With just a little time, you should be able to pedal 6.5kph (4mph) for hours. and almost double that in a sprint.

Kayaking Bob


As he doesn't get back from a life of luxury and debauchery cruising around New Zealand for another week, I have got some valuable training time. :lol: :lol:
Mickey


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:14 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:36 am
Posts: 840
Location: Gippsland Lakes Victoria Australia
Just got home after trying out my new turbo fins.
WOW - they're GREAT!!! :D :D
I guess I got a bit carried away. I launched at my local boat ramp at 4 pm and thought I'd paddle up to the mouth of the river - it's only 4.5 kms.
That wasn't far enough! I kept peddling out into the lake, exploring some of the shallow areas and parts of the lake shoreline that I had never ventured into before. Before I knew it I was entering the Silt Jetties at the mouth of the Mitchell River (They are the second longest silt jetties in the world, only surpassed by the Mississippi) I decided to peddle down the Mitchell until I reached a point where I could cut through in to Jones Bay and then head back up the Nicholson River where I started.
I got back to the boat ramp at 9pm and estimate that I must have covered a distance of 50kms over the 5 hours I was out.
I chewed on a few muesili bars when I felt peckish, and drained the three waterbottles I had on board.
I think the pelicans and black swans thought I was one of them :lol:
The weather was beautiful and I can only describe the whole experience as fantastic and very memorable!
So to conclude, all I can say is THE TURBO FINS ROCK :D :D :D
A must-have improvement to the standard AI :wink:
Mickey


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:59 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
An update on the differences between stardard and turbo fins as tested alongside each other today on kayaks only over a distance of 10 kilometers.
Mickey had his new turbo fins on the river today whilst I was using my standard fins as supplied with the AI.
Whilst beside each other keeping the same speed, for every 100 of my leg strokes Mickey only needed 65 strokes.
When we were pushing it a bit, he was more relaxed whilst my upper legs were getting some muscle burn.
When flat out, we were keeping the same speed with both tiring.
The benefit of the turbo was mainly evident at cruise speed with less strokes to maintain the speed so more relaxing and less taxing.
We then swapped over the drives and I got to use the turbo fins. Same results as above and I can confirm that it is more enjoyable at cruise speed and easier on the legs.....Pirate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:41 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2242
Location: Maui, Hawaii
But now the question...

Did Pirate give Mickey his drive back after getting his hands on the Turbo fins? :)

Kayaking Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:15 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
reconlon wrote:
But now the question...

Did Pirate give Mickey his drive back after getting his hands on the Turbo fins? :)

Kayaking Bob


:? :? :? Yeah really great question Bob.. thanks :!: .. :oops: :oops: Pirate :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:48 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
Thanks to you Bob I had to return Mickey's fins, but the good news is with Mickey's help and experience, I now have my own new turbo fins installed. Went paddling and sailing with Mickey yesterday in about 12 knots of breeze on the Gippsland Lakes. Beautiful weather and great day but my point is that I too am sold on these suckers. More cruise power for no more energy. Proved also that in these conditions an AI can peddle directly into the wind with sail furled and beat another AI that is under sail and has to tack it's way upwind over a distance of about three kilometers. Far more grunt for your buck....Pirate :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:04 pm
Posts: 227
Location: Wilmington, North Carolina
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Turbos. I will have to add those to my upgrade want list.

_________________
2010 Hibiscus Adventure Island


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:58 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
I may have a problem developing with my turbo fins after only two outings. Mickey is on his sabatical so I took off solo today down our Mitchell River. Though the wind was 10 to 15 knots, it fluked down the river in a most haphazard fashion and I got to pedal for about 3 hours total with not a great deal of help from the wind at times.
Anyway had a great day but when I returned to the ramp and was packing up I noticed one of the mast ends is starting to tear through the rubber fin at its extremity. I was careful not to hit anything so am having trouble explaining it. Has anyone else had this problem and is there a cure?.. :? :? Pirate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:10 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Germany;Formentera (Spain)
Pirate wrote:
Has anyone else had this problem and is there a cure?


That sounds exactly like the problem I mentioned in this thread.
For me it looked like a constructional problem or an issue based on the material used, therefore I brought the fins back to my dealer and used the standard fins (the black ones). Of cause pedaling now is a little bit slower and I enjoyed using the turbo fins, but I also don't wanted to waste my money more than reasonable.

If hobie offers a newer version of the turbo fins (I bought the 07 version), I would like to give them a chance - if not, I cruise around with the standard fins, most of the time leaned against the bottom of the hull while sailing (in that case, a little bit faster as using them as additional daggerboard).

Next season for me starts in 3 weeks - I'm looking forward to have my fun on the water (without GPS - for me there is no need to break speed records), perhaps meeting someone else on Formentera also cruising around on an AI along the Migjorn and being able to share some experiences (e.g. about broken rudder pins & sprockets, lost balls from mast collar, upcoming rudder etc.) and hoping to spend not much time to contact my dealer for ordering spare parts (thanks to catawest in germany for their support). Starting on the beach I have learned my lessons, that paddeling the first meters is the most conserving way for the material in shallow water and that it does not make sense o start sailing when the breaking waves exceed a half meter.
;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group