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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:57 am 
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Location: South Florida
If we are talking GPS units, I have a hard time keeping quiet.

Just for sailing and measurement of speed and tracks, a Garmin Foretrex is fine. If you intend to use your AI for trips of the type I do, (see
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=7276&start=75&sid=d84bde24c0f0308222d21808f8784451)
then, a Foretrex is woefully inadeqate.

For doing any kind of trips, even day trips exploring in complex areas, you need a Garmin GPSMap 60C, 76C or some comparible device.

Keith

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Chekika wrote:
If we are talking GPS units, I have a hard time keeping quiet.

Just for sailing and measurement of speed and tracks, a Garmin Foretrex is fine. If you intend to use your AI for trips of the type I do, (see
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=7276&start=75&sid=d84bde24c0f0308222d21808f8784451)
then, a Foretrex is woefully inadeqate.

For doing any kind of trips, even day trips exploring in complex areas, you need a Garmin GPSMap 60C, 76C or some comparible device.

Keith


Keith, Can it export .kml files like Stringy's Nokia can?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Hi Chris,

My Garmin GPSMap 76CSx is approaching 5 yrs old--the good news is that it has been very reliable. The bad news is that it does not have some of the features the new devices have. It definitely cannot send .kml files--but it does not need to. A 76C and all of the other Garmin handheld GPS units w/ a USB port can be connected to your computer and can upload information to Google Earth. You can upload tracks (like Stringy's neat tracks he posts), waypoints, and routes. Stringy's Nokia probably does not have a USB port, so, to Nokia's credit, it has the capability to send that info via .kml files.

A USB port is one of the powerful features of all Garmin handheld GPS units. It allows you to up/download information to programs on your computer.

On my "expedition" thread, I regularly display Google Earth images w/ my tracks. For example, scroll down on this link to see some tracks.
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=7276&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Chekika wrote:
Hi Chris,

My Garmin GPSMap 76CSx is approaching 5 yrs old--the good news is that it has been very reliable. The bad news is that it does not have some of the features the new devices have. It definitely cannot send .kml files--but it does not need to. A 76C and all of the other Garmin handheld GPS units w/ a USB port can be connected to your computer and can upload information to Google Earth. You can upload tracks (like Stringy's neat tracks he posts), waypoints, and routes. Stringy's Nokia probably does not have a USB port, so, to Nokia's credit, it has the capability to send that info via .kml files.

A USB port is one of the powerful features of all Garmin handheld GPS units. It allows you to up/download information to programs on your computer.

On my "expedition" thread, I regularly display Google Earth images w/ my tracks. For example, scroll down on this link to see some tracks.
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=7276&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75

Keith


Thanks Keith. Of course, I've seen lots of your posts with tracks. What was I thinking? :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:19 pm
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Location: Jackson Hole, Wyoming
Howdy from Jackson Hole, Wyoming!

Arno wrote:
Quote:
So everyone agrees that there is a life to the AI under 10kts, thanks to its unique peddling abilities, together with the sail giving a hand rather early ?
I do not intend to use the AI mainly sub 10kts, but waiting for the wind to pick up, or peddling out to the wind line, I will be confronted to this situation and I wanna make sure before shedding 4 grands !


Arno, I can't blame you for being nervous being a French pioneer in AI trimiran kayak sailing. It IS a lot of money: give us all the questions you want.

Why not try to rent a demo from a dealer somewhere in Europe (my dealer charges $50US / day) or find a friendly AI owner over there who'll let you test drive his/hers for a couple bottles of good French wine?

You'll find the Mirage foot drive is so user friendly you won't miss paddling. Before this, I thought I'd never be able to sea kayak because of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in my wrists. No longer!

Using the AI on days with little or no wind is entirely enjoyable. The craft scoots along under muscle power at a brisk pace; you'll likely find yourself moving faster and more comfortably than paddlers. You can Zen out admiring the scenery with no worry of tipping over. You'll learn a lot about the craft of sailing by carefully watching water for wind gusts and positioning yourself to make the most of what little is available. You'll look incredibly sexy to every other other boat on the water wondering, "What the hell is that???" And... When the wind picks up, you're ready to fly.

The AI provides high adrenaline adventure kicks when the wind is high, but you'll discover it just as enjoyable in a Zen way on low wind days. You'll also find its load carrying capacity for long trips wonderful (as long as you keep the loads as low as possible above hull top, and as much as possible within the hull; this really helps pointing ability; windage above the top, especially in front can reduce your pointing to sh*t, matey).

I've been on this list a looooong time and have never seen a post from somebody regretting their purchase. The problems you see are a microscope into AI problems, and not a telescope into the universe of what it provides.

Again, ask any questions you want. And... keep us posted on your experiences.

Happy Trails!

Chris

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the love you take,
is equal to the love,
you make...
--The Beatles


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Escondido
That's a great point Chris. The AI has an excellent pedigree coming from the Adventure kayak. A very fast and smooth cruiser in its own right, it is race proven winner, superb in wind and chop and very quiet. It pedals quite a bit faster than the fully rigged AI.

I go out frequently in the morning when there is no significant wind. Having a small sail from the pre-AI days, it's easy to stow and raise it on the spot if a breeze comes up while out.
Image

To do this with the AI, you just need to make a small sail adapter (shown below) and voila, you have a very slick easy furling sailing capability with the AI/Adventure mode! All the AI rigging works perfectly with the small sail.
Image

So the AI is the most versatile of all single Hobies -- pedal, paddle and two sailing modes! 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Arno- I can email you a track in the following formats:
.KML, GPX, XML, CSV. What would you prefer?
I agree with Roadrunner and Chris about the AI’s versatility and would like to add that IMHO it is also the best value kayak around. The extra $1500 we pay here on top of the Adventure is well worth it for the extras that you get. You wouldn’t need your other sea kayak. Like Roadrunner I use mine a lot as an Adventure with the small sail.


Chrisj- Thanks for your spot-on replies.

Keith- The Nokia Navigator does indeed have a USB port. That’s how I download the files to the PC.


Geoff- Your area of Port Stephens is one of my favourite destinations. I am hoping to get to Broughton Island again in the near future.

Roadrunner- Our local waterways Brisbane Water, Hawkesbury River and Broken Bay are all saltwater. So is Lake Macquarie to our North but as Geoff posted it has a smaller opening to the sea and so is less salty. The local Powerstation also means the water there is quite warm.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:52 pm
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Location: Marseille, France, Europe
Thanks a lot everyone for your help.
Stringy, gpx would be great, and by the way it is a format that Google Earth also deals and can display tracks with.

Well to be true I've found out the AI is what I've been longing for for some years now : a small sail boat that I can trail walking down to the harbour launch without too much hassle, and that can cope with dying wind. And it has that unique feature of the Mirage drive + the nice furling device.

"It pedals quite a bit faster than the fully rigged AI."
Some others say the amas are barely noticeable when peddling with the sail fully furled in (in no wind) and that the drag is minimal.

JacksonHoleWyoming, you are quite right : answering that question from my point of view could be straightforward : just give it a try. The problem is that donw here, dealers don't stock any AI and are quite reluctant to get a demo one (apart from one which may arrange that, we're in the process). Cheers for your helpful attitude and info, that I very much appreciate.

Something I can confirm : as already stated by a forum member from Scotland, in Europe at the moment, what we're offered are still 2008 AI at full retail price (4100 euros) !
And if one decides to wait till all the 2008 are gone, he is warned that the 2009 models will be substantially more costly (but hard to know the exact price increase).


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:57 pm 
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Location: Gippsland Lakes Victoria Australia
Quote:
Something I can confirm : as already stated by a forum member from Scotland, in Europe at the moment, what we're offered are still 2008 AI at full retail price (4100 euros) !
And if one decides to wait till all the 2008 are gone, he is warned that the 2009 models will be substantially more costly (but hard to know the exact price increase).

arno - maybe you should think about relocating. :roll:
I could buy 2 2009 AIs here in Australia for the price you have to pay :shock:
Mickey


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:21 pm 
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Location: Ettalong Beach, Central Coast, Australia
mickeymouse wrote:
Quote:
Something I can confirm : as already stated by a forum member from Scotland, in Europe at the moment, what we're offered are still 2008 AI at full retail price (4100 euros) !
And if one decides to wait till all the 2008 are gone, he is warned that the 2009 models will be substantially more costly (but hard to know the exact price increase).

arno - maybe you should think about relocating. :roll:
I could buy 2 2009 AIs here in Australia for the price you have to pay :shock:
Mickey


For sure we could buy one here and I am sure transport would not cost that much. Maybe I should look at excess baggage when I fly to Frankfurt in a few months? Actually I was trying to do a home exchange in France, and think I finally have one in Paris. I would have been be prepared to offer the AI along with my home here, for a good exchange in France. There's an idea. Come out, try an AI for a week or so, buy one here, and ship it back unaccompanied baggage. Take two back and pay for your holiday as well.

Geoff.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Location: Escondido
arno wrote:
"It pedals quite a bit faster than the fully rigged AI."
Some others say the amas are barely noticeable when peddling with the sail fully furled in (in no wind) and that the drag is minimal.


To be sure, the AI feels quick and nimble under pedal power. But when you consider that the AI, fully rigged specs out at about 24 kg more than the Adventure (perhaps about 20 more than the AI/Adventure) and the frontal area fully rigged with furled sail is about 4 times the frontal area of the Adventure, and the amas don't stay out of the water all the time (even when calm) and that when cruising along at about 8 km/h you're generating that much headwind, it starts to add up when you typically have about 60 to 100 W pedal power available. Unfortunately there is no free lunch.

IMO, pedaling the AI upwind seems to be about 1 - 1 1/4 km/h slower in moderate winds light chop. I don't take the AI out on windless days, but would guess maybe .7 or .8 km/h difference. Some might say that 10% +/- is barely noticeable -- you can decide for yourself. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Location: Marseille, France, Europe
Roadrunner wrote:
arno wrote:
"It pedals quite a bit faster than the fully rigged AI."
Some others say the amas are barely noticeable when peddling with the sail fully furled in (in no wind) and that the drag is minimal.


To be sure, the AI feels quick and nimble under pedal power. But when you consider that the AI, fully rigged specs out at about 24 kg more than the Adventure (perhaps about 20 more than the AI/Adventure) and the frontal area fully rigged with furled sail is about 4 times the frontal area of the Adventure, and the amas don't stay out of the water all the time (even when calm) and that when cruising along at about 8 km/h you're generating that much headwind, it starts to add up when you typically have about 60 to 100 W pedal power available. Unfortunately there is no free lunch.

IMO, pedaling the AI upwind seems to be about 1 - 1 1/4 km/h slower in moderate winds light chop. I don't take the AI out on windless days, but would guess maybe .7 or .8 km/h difference. Some might say that 10% +/- is barely noticeable -- you can decide for yourself. 8)


Thanks a lot again Roadrunner for that.
Goods news from my point of view as I imagined more something like a 50% speed loss.
Cool !

And some update : the local Hobie Cat dealer after some discussion decided to get one that he will keep for demo / rental if I don't buy it - because I'm finally gonna be able to try one so !


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:19 pm
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Location: Jackson Hole, Wyoming
Howdy Arno!

I'm glad your local dealer said he'd bring one in for demo/rental if you didn't want to buy it. My strong guess is that you'll buy it, and then he'll get another when he sees the potential. Wait and see... You'll end up steering people onto his demo after they see yours.

Another option would have been to travel across Europe to test another AI. Here in the USA rocky mountain western states, we're used to traveling long distances to get anywhere. If your local dealer can accomodate you with it, fine. Otherwise, why not travel to another country checking one out from a dealer or owner?

Whatever the case, please post your experiences on our list. It will be fun envisioning the grin on your face as you type.

Happy Trails!

Chris

_________________
And in the end,
the love you take,
is equal to the love,
you make...
--The Beatles


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:52 pm
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Location: Marseille, France, Europe
Howdy Chris !

JacksonHoleWyoming wrote:
Another option would have been to travel across Europe to test another AI. Here in the USA rocky mountain western states, we're used to traveling long distances to get anywhere. If your local dealer can accomodate you with it, fine. Otherwise, why not travel to another country checking one out from a dealer or owner?


It actually thought about going to the UK - about 1200km from my home with the Channel to cross with a ferry - because there the AI is 25% cheaper, and they already have 2009 in stock.
But my first move is always to support local dealers, and last but not least, what if I have a hull failure and need a replacement ? Just shipping back is about 400 euros and many shipping companies simply refuse this kind of parcel !


JacksonHoleWyoming wrote:
Whatever the case, please post your experiences on our list. It will be fun envisioning the grin on your face as you type.

Happy Trails!

I certainly will, thanks ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:42 am 
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
Good stuff Arno. Buy locally - support your local people and they will be around in the future to support you. Money is just one part of the equation, support and back-up in the other.....Pirate


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