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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:26 am 
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
chrisj wrote:
I can't argue that gibing upwind is faster than tacking Pirate, at least not in terms of velocity made good, but it can be more exhilarating in a moderate breeze, because the speed through the water is greater. It may be an illusion, but that is the essence of the AI's appeal - it's not really a very fast boat, but it feels like one. It will be interesting to see what happens with you and Mickey trying it out. I wouldn't bother if the breeze is light though.


Wind was light yesterday and Mickey's mind was off the wind wandering somewhere through his dubious past I imagine :lol: and he declined my sincere though somewhat late invitation to go sailing. He has been toying with the some idea of a Tonga jaunt as of late so that could be occupying him. Anyway I went off paddling solo instead and must admit without the drive in, the kyak seemed to move easier through the water. Maybe I too will have to attach a lanyard to the plug and use it more often. I will tempt Mickey out again when the wind gets up and will report on the outcome of this little experiment....Pirate :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Location: Gilbert, AZ
I attached a lanyard to my plug, ran a short cable with snap hook to the round eyelet just starboard of the hole. My plug is almost new and has a crack on the bottom where the side snap into the locks. It was taking in water, tried to glue it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:45 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Bob L. wrote:
I attached a lanyard to my plug, ran a short cable with snap hook to the round eyelet just starboard of the hole. My plug is almost new and has a crack on the bottom where the side snap into the locks. It was taking in water, tried to glue it.


Bob, If you follow the link in Stringy's post, earlier in this thread, it looks like it doesn't really matter if the plug does take in water, since it doesn't need to float. Maybe it just needs a hole near the bottom so the water can drain out again quickly when you remove it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Location: Gippsland Lakes Victoria Australia
chrisj wrote:
Bob L. wrote:
I attached a lanyard to my plug, ran a short cable with snap hook to the round eyelet just starboard of the hole. My plug is almost new and has a crack on the bottom where the side snap into the locks. It was taking in water, tried to glue it.


Bob, If you follow the link in Stringy's post, earlier in this thread, it looks like it doesn't really matter if the plug does take in water, since it doesn't need to float. Maybe it just needs a hole near the bottom so the water can drain out again quickly when you remove it.


Here's something else you can do with it :wink:
http://www.eastcoastkayakfishing.com/ho ... ayaks.html

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:03 pm 
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stringy wrote:
Bob,
Roadrunner once made a handbag out of his plug! :wink:

Yes, and Stringy made his into a mundanely practical (fully retractable)daggerboard well for his Oasis!
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The great thing about the plug is its utter versatility. Whether improving sailing, paddling, propulsion or fashion, its possibilities are endless.
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Remember, Mother's Day is just around the corner! :wink: :wink:

It goes well with everything and can even store your spare change or be used as a vault for valuables (who would ever think of looking there?). :roll:

And when filled with the wife's jewelry or lead, it makes a valuable ballast piece for you solo / tandem operators! 8)


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:51 pm 
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Pirate said: "..if not you will lose many many boat lengths each time if you are on the wind and turn downwind."
True but is that a disaster?

I am not racing anyone or doing a time trial so a few boat lengths or a few seconds are not important, I guess I just care more about drag-reduction than nippy turns.

I found that turning without the Sea Anchor, sorry, Drive Fins, is just a matter of practice, choose the right moment when your boat has a little extra speed from gust and/or swell and it will go around fine, if not grab that paddle and stir the soup enough to get around.
The fact that your AI is a faster boat without Fins gives you more speed to enter the turn and thus more impetus to get through it.

I realise that some people will quite understandably make the decision to leave them in for convenience, others like me who abhor unecessary drag for its own sake will learn to turn without them. Would you believe the Drive Fins cause more drag in the LOCKED UP position than they do pointing down, this is because they obstruct the aquastream flowing past the Hull they are folded against as well as the Profile Drag and Surface Drag inherent in the Fin body. Remember, these Fins are never perfectly aligned so you always have Two of them dragging individually and more so with the Turbo ST's than with the Standard Fins.

Same with the plug, its only a few pounds lost thrust but why lose them, the extra Kilos of water in the boat will slow its acceleration too, this all adds to the loss of efficiency.
And of course, the faster your boat travels, the steeper is the Parasitic Drag curve from the dangly bits underneath and the greater the hindrance to your progress.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 4:05 pm 
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You're quite correct skymax that a few boat lengths doesn't really matter which could be made up by a more streamlined hull travelling throught the water. The fins are very convenient to get the boat cleanly through the tack which I like a lot, though to be fair I should be trying without the fins. In fact I will.
Having the various options on offer is one of the reason why these little craft are so good. Now we have the trampolines available makes them even more versatile don't you think.....Pirate :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 4:52 pm 
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Just to be the Devil's Advocate on this: the drive fins are only really exerting a parasitic drag when they are not in use. When in use, they obviously exert a net forward thrust (that's what they are there for isn't it?). In lighter winds, you are always going to go a bit faster using the pedals, (not to mention the benefits of the cardio workout). I've found this even applies sailing downwind, using a slower cadence, despite the theoretical loss of apparent wind, but there comes a windspeed when you instinctively stop pedalling (?~12 knots) and that is when taking the drive out makes a clear difference.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:08 am 
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I used to rarely remove the drive and fit the plug, but now I do almost every time I sail. The difference is striking. Sailing with the drive in is like having one hand tied behind your back.

I tack going upwind. For some reason, one way is no trouble, but I slightly get caught in irons the other. This is no problem. Once you stop upwind, ease the sail and reverse the rudder. The AI will go a little backwards and then as soon as you can, sheet in and you are off. This works much better than gybing up wind. And, the small penality in going backwards is nothing compared to the ground you lose by having the drive in up wind.

Unless, of course, you are pedaling a little. Then all bets are off.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:28 am 
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Location: Germany;Formentera (Spain)
most of the time when sailing I have the Mirage Drive (using the standard fins) in place, but the fins in horizontal position instead of vertical and my feeling is, that higher speed can be reached that way (for those who are on the run;-), until now without any "speed-o-meter")


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:29 am 
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Location: Ft Lauderdale FL
With all this talk about not being able to tack without the drive installed I gotta ask. Are have you guys tried backing the main during a tack if the boat gets slow coming through the wind or gets stuck in irons. I sail with the drive in and out but I very seldom touch the pedals during a tack. If I think I might be slowing coming though the wind I grab the clew in my hand and hold it to windward catching air in the sail and forcing the bow to fall off the wind. On the very rare occasion I lose my forward speed I continue to hold the clew into the wind and reverse the rudder. As the boat backs down the bow will fall off the wind on the desired tack. Then just once again reverse the rudder and sheet in the main and off you go.
These Manuevers will usually gain you distance to windward during the tack and over the course of several tacks will result in you being many boatlengths upwind of a boat that is "Jibing upwind".

I learned something about sailing from this thread. At first I questioned the "gybe" spelling of the word jibe. Thought it might be some Aussie thing. But there it is in Websters.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:51 pm 
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It is. GYBE is derived from the Australian Aboriginal word Grib or grub, as in witcherty. Meaning the 'C' shape of the witcherty grub is like the turn of a sailing craft.

Not many people know that.

Tomorrows lesson is how the the word FATHOM is derived from the Aboriginal word FLAGON.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Are you 'Aussies' still ticked off by the British?

The first oceanography class I took...my instructor
explained that the word 'fathom' came from the Old English
word 'faeom' and Mid English word 'fathme' which meant
the distance between a pair of outstretched arms.
The word (as a length) was used by English sailors for
several hundred years before the British ever landed in
Australia!
The usage was similar to the depth measurements made
on the Mississippi River ... Samuel Clements changed his
name to 'Mark Twain', from the shout about depths when
he was a steamboat captain on the River.

The word gybe (English) [jibe (US)] came from the Old Dutch
sailing term 'gijben'...

But, of course, I may be prejudiced since the word origins given
above are referenced from the 'Oxford English Dictionary'


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:11 pm 
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I have it on good authority that a now extinct seafaring tribe of Aboriginies taught the English how to sail, among other things. :wink: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
I have it on good authority that a now extinct seafaring tribe of Aboriginies taught the English how to sail, among other things. :wink: :lol:


Gee, they must have regretted that, in the light of subsequent events.

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