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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:23 am 
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Only someone with a name like "Cowsgomoo"could come up with a solution like that.
You may be on to something though...

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:55 am 
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Location: Dahlgren, VA
Cyclists have been using the push-pull technique for about 70 years (or more) and the current design of toe straps, traps and clips in use attests to its value. Using two of the largest muscle groups in the body instead of one does improve speed and distance. It can take a while to get used to it. Still, when I'm trying to go fast or when I'm just plain tired, having something to grip seems to help a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:08 am 
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I'll chuck in another 2 bob's worth to this original debate. I reckon you're right RR with the 'holding onto something makes you go faster' philosophy. It may not be that the arms are taking much, if any, of the load but they are assisting in keeping the body balanced. The tour de france is coming up. Just have a look at the top time trialists and how little these blokes move around on the saddle. Very little body movement compared with the domestics that wobble round like mad.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:30 am 
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Excellent suggestions -- I will try them all! :lol: I was thinking one of those aerodynamic helmets might help too. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Hey Road Runner...thanks...was that a Mirage Classic in the photo? And Slaughter...thanks for weighing in also. I cant even believe the post generated so much controversy on both sides. I thought the answer was obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:22 pm 
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The one and only -- with Turbofins, that sweetheart could mix it up with the best of them! Good eye -- thought you might recognize it. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Light weight...sleek... and if Im not mistaken... with the seat pegs already secured to the deck? Mine came that way from the factory. I miss my Classic sometimes. Pull forward and blast away my friend!

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New to PCs and this forum stuff. Had an original Outback and Classic. sold them both for the A.I.. Love the boat and especially this site... (if I can figure out how to use it)


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Yea good thread that one. I've been on a cycling forum for years and I'm still trying to get used to the friendliness of this forum. For a laugh I might post this thread on the cycling forum and change the word kayak to bike and see what happens. I expect by the weeks end someone will threaten to burn down my house or eat my kids

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:24 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:
chrisj wrote:
RR, I have a PhD in the science of recumbency, or so my wife seems to believe :roll: .

Then you're just the man I need some advice from! There is a local kayak 5 mile race coming up in a couple of weeks and I'm looking for a way to beat my cross town rival. He doesn't get on these forums often so any advise you give here will be especially helpful! :idea:

I considered an auxiliary electric motor, but am afraid he might hear it. Hiring a boat to generate a nice long wake would be too obvious. If handles won't help, what else is there? :?


Roadrunner, I would definately give pushing down on your legs with your hands a fair trial before dismissing it. I reckon it spreads the load between leg and arm musles and will give you an edge on the opposition. Might be a good way to give your leg muscles a bit of a break between full blown sprints....Pirate

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:05 am 
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Slaughter wrote:
Yea good thread that one. I've been on a cycling forum for years and I'm still trying to get used to the friendliness of this forum. For a laugh I might post this thread on the cycling forum and change the word kayak to bike and see what happens. I expect by the weeks end someone will threaten to burn down my house or eat my kids

LOL- We`re all in the same boat... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Pirate wrote:
I would definately give pushing down on your legs with your hands a fair trial before dismissing it. I reckon it spreads the load between leg and arm musles and will give you an edge on the opposition. Might be a good way to give your leg muscles a bit of a break between full blown sprints....Pirate


Great suggestion and very similar to my secret weapon, the pull handles! :D
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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
I've come to learn that even an elite rider doesn't actually generate much force pulling.

I think the real value of pulling on a bicycle pedal is in training you to circularize your power stroke. I agree that you don't produce useful energy on the return portion, but you are learning to do more than mash the pedals at the top of the stroke, you are leading them around for a longer power stroke. That's the theory anyhow. Pulling on the return is really just a mental trick to get you to follow through on the full forward stroke.

Probably doesn't translate at all with the mirage drive lever action pedals.

I've been thinking about how a full support mesh recumbent seat might perform on an AI, such as the seat on this Greenspeed, when I ran across a project by a pedal powered kayak racer who put a recumbent seat in a wood kayak retrofitted with a chain driven propeller.
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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:32 am 
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Location: Marseille, France, Europe
Being a cyclist myself, I find it unatural not to be able to pull after pushing, even more if I'm going strong. I guess it has to do with an active relaxation of the leg muscles, at least that's what I feel, with an opposite move.
What I've found with the Mirage Drive so far, and that I would like to change (perhaps there's a setting somewhere), and without resorting to arm straps for instance (thanks anyway) is as follows : just when the pedal shaft start coming backwards, there is a lack of resistance, like too much play, for about 3 inches of travel, and then it's OK till the end. It creates an undesirable shaky feeling.
I'm dead sure that with a steady push/pull move, we get more stamina, if not more power.
Oh and yes, of course I was talking with foot straps very closely adjusted (no play there).


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:54 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:
Pirate wrote:
I would definately give pushing down on your legs with your hands a fair trial before dismissing it. I reckon it spreads the load between leg and arm musles and will give you an edge on the opposition. Might be a good way to give your leg muscles a bit of a break between full blown sprints....Pirate


Quote:
Great suggestion and very similar to my secret weapon, the pull handles! :D
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I`ve always used the technique of pushing on my knees as well Pirate. It definately helps when your legs get tired.
I would also like to try attaching straps to the outsides of the peddles if possible so your arms stay on the outside not in between your knees? It makes sense R.R.
So does a higher seat back with stronger straps for that matter.
And -of course-better handle and handle placement... the best of all worlds.

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New to PCs and this forum stuff. Had an original Outback and Classic. sold them both for the A.I.. Love the boat and especially this site... (if I can figure out how to use it)


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Act
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:44 am 
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Location: Coram N.Y.
Finished adding handles for a better grip-can anyone advise me on how to upload some photos? Thanks :)

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