New dagger?

Great informative post Roadrunner and my congratulations go to Hobie for continuing R & D and support on existing products such as the dagger-board. Seems this upgrade is a must for the purist sailor. It struck me that Hobie was well ahead of us consumers on this particular issue as our discussions of its effectiveness were most recent. What is the cost of this upgrade Matt?.....

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Master of the galleon 'Pirates Lot'

Stringy's point is well taken. The gray fiberglass version is a beautiful piece of equipment (which I believe is hand made), whereas the new board is molded Nylon. Based on appearances, the new board pales by comparison!

But when it comes to functional performance the new design has its advantages. Too bad they didn't combine the best of both.

Stringy, you're right about the weights also. On my postal scale the white board (my regular beater board on which I based my comparison) weighs 2 lb, 3 oz. The new board is a tiny bit lighter at 2 lb, 2 oz but doesn't swing as quick because it carries more of its weight on the bottom end. I ass-umed the honeycombed gray board was the same as the white, but I just took it off the wall and see that it only weighs 1 lb, 8 oz! (I don't use this board because it's too pretty)!

Beauty or performance -- personally I prefer to look at the old board but sail with the new one!

I have a bit of a moan occasionally but ...

today winds of about 20 knots gusting a little higher, swells of a metre, fast reaching across Moreton Bay and hoping nothing breaks. I passed a guy in a 50 foot Princess (going the other way) and when I hit his wash I know which of us was having more fun

and it didn't cost me a million bucks

Confusion on ordering the 'new' AI daggerboard...
Why did Hobie decide to use the exact same parts number for
both the 'old style' and 'new style' daggerboards!?!.
They are made of different materials, are colored differently, and have different shapes!
I talked to my dealer and was told that they would have no way
to determine what was coming from the factory until it arrived and
I could then reject the board if it was the 'older' version.

Thanks Roadrunner. That might explain the price difference between the white/gray boards, although if I had lost a gray board I think I would have replaced it with a white one.
I can certainly put up with the ugly black daggerboard for the performance/durability improvements it offers.

Matt, (or Hobie Aus?)
Like Tidalwave, I too would like to know if I order one now which will I get and what is the cost?
Is the molded nylon board really the same price as the hand-crafted, beautifully finished and light gray board?

You need to contact Hobie Australasia or local dealers for availability and pricing.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

My "Old" DB is a beautiful thing and I am keeping it, you dont have to assume that every new offering is "better".

If RR says there is a gain then I don't doubt him, maybe there is a slight performance increase but would most be able to notice it, and it does bend under load which may negate the extra area in some circumstances?

What would be noticed is that these new DB's are cheaper to make and look like it, and take hits more forgivingly, yet have problems with staying in the detent position as mentioned above.

You can see a quote from a very experienced yachtsman and Hobie AI owner in the other Thread on this subject.

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Fair Skies, Max.

Just to be facetious it kind of reminds me of the Simpsons episode when everyone just HAD to have the new Malibu Stacey Doll because, "She has a new Hat!"

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Fair Skies, Max.

The best way to evaluate the performance of a product is to try it out. To make a reasonable assessment I think it's desirable to compare the old and new side by side, if possible, in its working environment.

To check out the initial stabilizing performance difference I rocked the Adventure back and forth with both boards alternatively to see if the new board slowed the rocking moment. It did, noticeably. Looking at upwind tracking, I did a series of runs at a buoy with both boards and took a look at side slip. Again, I could tell a distinct difference.

As with the difference between the small and large rudder, I suspect the difference is likely greater at slower speeds where there is less lift and dynamic pressure available to the board.

Regarding DB flexing, I think it's a non-issue. Most boats heel (and thereby "flex" the board) magnitudes more then this board will ever bend in the water. Airplane wings flex with negligible performance differences and DBs operate on the same principle. There was certainly nothing detectable that I could note that would give the slightest inkling that this might be an issue.

I no longer race sailboats, or at least competitively -- there are many more accomplished sailors out there! But I do like to race with the Mirage Drive! In that regard, everything that makes a performance difference becomes significant and cumulative. Some of the users here will look at the DB from that perspective, and others will not.

One must distinguish between performance, aesthetics and value. The importance of aesthetics and price are different matters and highly individualistic. That said, I was a bit shocked at the price of the new board, especially compared with, lets say a new rudder. Looking at the two boards, I can't say that my old scratched and dinged board is any prettier than the new one at this point, but then I'm more likely to polish the bottom of my boat for speed than the top for looks. Accordingly, I wasted no time removing the small casting mark from the leading edge of the new board.

Personally I like the way it performs and have even grown accustomed to its humble appearance. Like skua though, I would like to see someone else review the new board, especially someone with the ability to chart track made good (or whatever it's called). Anyone in the area that would like to borrow mine for that purpose is more than welcome to do so.

The differences in profile of the two boards remind me of the difference between a square top vs pin top mainsail. More area where it matters most makes a big difference, even if it's only a little more area. I'm not surprised they do better upwind, but I don't think I'll be upgrading. Our gray ones are OK, and if I want to go higher upwind and faster I pedal. On the other hand, if I lose a gray one overboard, I see a black one in my future.

This is my attitude also, as you say aesthetics are important to some and not others, so is care, my original Daggerboard is still beautiful and unmarked.

Also it's not just the DB, RR is a very experienced sailor who can discern and tweak extra performance, I daresay some amateur sailors may not posses the sensitivity or experience to be able to actually use or notice any marginal upwind sailing performance, if indeed it can be measured and proven and go beyond personal opinion.

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Fair Skies, Max.

I've used the new black DB once, so it's early days, but here is a comparison of the original grey (white line in pic) and the black DB's.
Both trips were sailing only in Adventure (kayak) mode with small sail, drive pulled, with DB's fully extended and travelling directly into a NE wind, sailing as close as I could before the sail luffed.
The trips were done on separate days so I'm not sure what can really be made of this as the conditions were very different. The white line was into a 10-15 knot wind and the black line was into a 15-25 knot wind. Those who know more about interpreting the track angles may like to comment as I am still new to this.
I agree with Roadrunner that the black DB improves the stability by slowing heeling. This was instantly noticeable and is worth the cost of the newer board for those that sail in Adventure mode only, IMHO.
In fact I would normally furl the sail a few turns in 25 knots but I felt much more stable with the new board. Ignore the glitches in the black track. I was having trouble with the small sail adaptor slipping in the strong winds.



More to come...

Stringy, it's nice to know that it wasn't just my optimistic imagination. Thanks for being the other Guinea Pig.

I wouldn't venture a guess as to the comparison of the two tracks on two different days under different conditions. If I'm comparing fin settings, I try to bring two matching Drives and swap back and forth on a defined course with multiple runs in each direction for each set-up. That way, changing winds, currents, chop, fatigue, etc. can hopefully be mitigated. If I want to continue another day I always re-establish a new baseline. Likewise, when comparing DB tracking I used the same protocol, so hopefully it was a fair enough test.

Warning...it appears that Hobie will send you another grey older version until
they run out of stock...Even if you specify you want the newer black one.
If I had known that...I would never have ordered! Now my dealer and I have
to try to return the wrong board...clear up the charges...and see if
I get another unwanted grey board or if I will finally get lucky and get
what I DID order the first time.
This is the first time that Hobie has tried to 'pull one over on me"!
You guess you have to be very lucky to get what you want.

Stringy, if the wind was coming from exactly the same direction on both days, you'd have to say the new DB made no difference, as far as pointing is concerned. The two tracks look almost exactly parallel on every tack.

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