Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:24 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:56 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:31 pm
Posts: 5
My first day out with a new 2011 Revolution and the chain slipped on the front St Turbo fin and I broke two teeth on the sproket. I was pushing it trying to go fast, heard clicking and crap. I couldn't beleive it.

I called the dealer (Windward Boats) and they said to email a picture and Hobbie might warranty it. The word might concerned me since the kayak has one hour on it!

Anyway... After reading a bit online about some sproket/teeth issues I think the cables were not adjust corectly from the factory and the chain lifted and pulled across the top of the teeth and broke them and slipped.

I'll re-post when I find the warranty out come.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:26 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9055
Location: Oceanside, California
Very unusual. Perhaps the teeth were damaged while the boat was on hard ground, rocks... pebbles? Chains are not supposed to be "tight" on the plastic sprockets, so adjustment is not the obvious cause... but maybe. The Island does have a lot of drag and you can over stress the hardware by stomping on the pedals. I guess at some point... something will give. Big guy?

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:31 pm
Posts: 5
Hi Matt,

This was my first time I took the kayak out and I put the drive in when the kayak was in the water....so no pebbles. I not that big...180lbs. I did however try to see fast I could go and peddled as hard as I could. I can tell you...a big strong guy with ST Turbo fins would have really done some damage.

I don't think the plastic sprockets is too big of an issue, although this would not have happened to a stainless steel sproket. I still think that the chain was too loose so when torque was applied it lifted and took out the teeth (1 tooth and 1/2 tooth). I use to work on Health Club gym equipment....this is just my opinion.

I'm going to try to take some pictures and send them to the dealer...the dealer will forward them to Hobbie for warranty.

BTW.....I really like the Kayak and I looking forward to getting back out.
Question... I guess I shouldn't peddle too hard??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9055
Location: Oceanside, California
Another thought... Perhaps the chain was not seated on the "keeper" tooth. Look at the middle tooth. Its not peaked... more squared off. Has to be popped into the chain and stays there. That allows the chains to be a bit less tight so the drive works better.

In any case. Warranty no charge no problem.

Even big guys with strong legs rarely have issues with the sprockets.

Stainless teeth allowed chains to skip. The plastic ones have been all-in-all less problematic. I suspect a defect or incorrect assembly / adjustment.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2719
Location: Kailua 96734
Mahalo to RR for the excellent detailed info, as always.

I notice that each side of the chain has a separate tensioner, so uneven pressure could be a factor in some failures. Or perhaps a drive that is not properly seated in the hull?

Island, the adjustment pegholes will usually strip first from "overexertion" so after this repair, please keep an eye out for that.

Was this a brand new boat or a demo? Low tide? Scrape any reefs that day? :shock:

Matt, what does a properly adjusted chain look and feel like? How loose should they be?

_________________
"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:40 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9055
Location: Oceanside, California
I'd defer to roadrunner on that one. He wrote a whole novel on it. It's in the MirageDrive FAQ:

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=12578

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:11 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:31 pm
Posts: 5
Hi Old Salt,

It was a brand new Kayak and it happened within an hour of the first time I had it out. I was in Lumahai river....no reef.

Either the tension on the chain wasn't tight enough or perhaps it wasn't seated properly as Matt suggested.... I don't know. Nevertheless the chain slipped because when I pulled the drive out the front fin was out to one side when the peddles were together and teeth were missing off the cog.

Enough said, I'm sure when this is repaired and adjusted properly it will be a non-issue in the future.

All the Best,
Island


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:23 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 253
Some just have bad luck. based on reading up on the subject. Chain to tight and it chews up sprockets. Chain too loose and it pops and breaks the teeth.

On my third sprocket in ten months. Never beached, no rocks, always cleaned and lubed after each use. Yes also did the chain check.
Seem to get the odd moldy fig... but plastic vs metal... plastic looses.

Don't see metal sprockets on a bike... Need to go back to metal sprockets.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:48 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:14 pm
Posts: 2
I have had my Tandem Island for about two months and have never operated the Mirage Drives in sand or shallow water. Both front sprockets have broken teeth. The dealer replaced both with no labor charge, but indicated they would submit a warranty claim to Hobie, but that he was not optimistic.

The chains slip when trying to sprint with the Mirage Drives. The dealer called it "abusive pedaling". Reading through this forum I noticed new owners having this problem, but didn't see any experienced owners that have slipped a cog.

The tension on the drives was set by the factory and checked by the dealer. Seems unlikely that tension is an issue. Are the Mirage Drives just not designed for sprinting?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:40 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2719
Location: Kailua 96734
They are not, (even though Hobie once showed them competing with, and beating Olympic paddlers in their ads).

It doesn't take much to strip a gear hole or a socket. Most of us do it sooner or later. Pedal-tacking in heavy wind, surfing, fighting a current or "showing off" might trigger it. These days, I never pedal with 100% effort, unless it's a emergency.

On the "bright side", this failure may prevent cracks from forming in your boat's drive well.

I wonder if solo pedaling from the rear seat is harder on them than the AI or other TI position. TI owners could comment on this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:06 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2409
Location: Escondido
yoursap wrote:
Both front sprockets have broken teeth. The dealer replaced both with no labor charge, but indicated they would submit a warranty claim to Hobie, but that he was not optimistic.
To my knowledge there are no parts exclusions on the Drive warranty.

Quote:
The chains slip when trying to sprint with the Mirage Drives. The dealer called it "abusive pedaling".
First time I've heard that one and I'd have to say it sounds like a bunch of nonsense invented by your dealer. A group of us here sprint our kayaks often in short races and adrenalized wake rides. Additionally, some of us participate in formal races and there is certainly no holding back! For all the Mirage Drive parts I've broken over the years, I've never had a cog fail.

During the past couple of years I've noticed some of the chains pinching the cogs, resulting in the chains only partially seating on the sprockets. It can be hard to spot with the sprocket guards on, but is more noticeable in the following picture. You can see the chain is installed correctly, but is partially lifted and will not seat on one of the cogs. If pressed in with a plier it pops right out when the pressure is released. This puts additional stress on the remaining cogs and can very easily be your culprit.
Image

The remedy is usually found by replacing either the sprocket or cable. It is easy enough to pre-test the fit before assembly.

The other less distinct possibility is that of getting air bubbles infused in the sprocket cogs during molding. Though not common, this can happen and is sometimes visible looking through the main sprocket shaft.

In either case these would be considered factory defects not "abusive pedaling".

Quote:
The tension on the drives was set by the factory and checked by the dealer. Seems unlikely that tension is an issue. Are the Mirage Drives just not designed for sprinting?
It is good to remember that the Mirage Drives are hand built at the factory and subject to variation in setting depending on the final assembler, time of day, etc. Additionally, some dealers are no doubt quite good at making adjustments to the Drives if a problem is brought to their attention, while other dealers don't have the slightest idea how to adjust a Drive. You can go to the FAQ here and verify the correct set-up of your Drive. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:22 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:14 pm
Posts: 2
My dealer submitted the broken sprockets to Hobie even though he did not expect them to be covered under warranty. He just called and is giving me the full credit that Hobie provided. I can't ask for any more than that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:17 pm
Posts: 10
I have a rental business renting Mirage drive kayaks and I have had quite a few Mirage drives come back with the sprockets stripped. I try to keep them properly adjusted, but they still sometimes get stripped. Since Hobie does not provide warranties on rental boats, I just eat the cost of replacing them repeatedly. I only have 2012 boats, so none of them are very old or have much use, although I am sure they are sometimes abused or not used properly.

_________________
http://www.masonborowatersports.com
masonborowatersports@gmail.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:51 pm
Posts: 4
I broke the sprocket on my mirage drive the first time I put it in the water. Now I'm afraid to pedal it very hard or it will break again.

When I push really hard on it now it makes an odd clicking noise and it feels like it is slipping, but there are no broken teeth and everything seems to be lined up still.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:27 pm
Posts: 535
I'm glad I found this thread, because it has now happened to me.
Bought my Revo11 in February and immediately upgraded to turbo fins since I fish offshore. About a month ago I noticed the clicking sound that others have described, and noticed my fins came out of the drive well at different angles. I backed off the tension on my cables and reset everything straight, and then tightened the crap out of them. Well, it turns out this was a horrible mistake and yesterday still 1.2 miles offshore I sheared the gears; it was a long paddle back.

If this thread has taught me anything its that: (a) this does happen often, (b) you should never over tighten the cables/chains, and (c) these mirage drives cannot truly take a lot of torque. I'm no body builder but I can squat my weight plus another 250lbs so when I tell you I apply torque when "sprinting" in the revo, I mean it, and I truly wish it had stainless steel cogs.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group