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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:52 am 
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Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
I can see how these style deflectors would resist pearling to a certain point. Eventually, under some conditions the bow is going to get submerged. With a deflector, once it's submerged does it delay the recovery of the bow and hold it under longer than it would be submerged without the deflector?

Just curious. We live in a warm place, and don't really mind getting wet.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
We don't mind a wet ride either, Gringo.

I really like the functionality of the spoon bill deflector designs. Image

Designers have smartly molded them into many of the Aussie surfyaks.
Image

But there's a down side to every design. Once you aggressively bury the top of that spoon, as in surfing downwind at 7+ knots, I suspect there would be strong pearling force. The deflector's drag would be anxious to pitchpole the boat or rip itself off the bow w/ repeated stress. Folks have reported they are held in place with just two bolts. Our friends in Australia can comment on this.

Image
One interesting thing about the Kahikolu deflector design is that semi-flexible shrouds are angled back and slighly downward, so once they are buried they cut through the water rather than building up drag. They also act a bit like shock absorbers for oncoming waves.

Whilst less efficient than the Aussie design, they do not present a safety issue.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Location: Inverloch, Australia
Gringo asks if the deflectors resist the recovery of the bow when fully submerged. The answer is no, they still provide considerable upthrust due to the angled planning surface and raise the bow rapidly.
To give an idea how effective these things are......I have tried surfing the Spirit CRT (the blue and white boat shown in post above) without the deflecter and pearling occurs most of the time at pickup, even with leaning right back. Recovery may or may not be possible. With the deflector pearling is rare even without the gymnastics.
This is not to say that if you try to catch a wave too late you wont get pearling. In surf nothing will save a bad take-off.
I have never experienced any tendancy of the spirit deflector to trip the boat, nor noticed any tendancy to slow the bow.
I am sure they would make a big difference in a sail boat. Furthermore believe they would enhance safety provided proper consideration is given to spreading the load.

As another thought I have often believed an excellent deflector for an AI could be fashoned from the plactic hydrofoils often attached to the cavitation plates of outboard motors to improve trim. Stingray and Dolfin are two brands available in Oz that come to mind. Some are flexable, if this is seen as an advantage.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
Thanks for the info. Is that duckbill design sealed and buoyant? Or is it free flooding? Looks about the right size for a certain Jack Russell to do the"Titanic bow bit.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:58 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Appreciate all the feedback mung.

Sadly, I don't think we can get our hands on these things stateside.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:10 am 
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Hi, from West Australia, Im new around here (as I recently bought an awesome new AI!)

Western australia is the home of Finn Kayaks. The company that makes the wave deflectors that Shufoy modified for his AI.
I stopped into their shopfront and found only one (in vintage hibiscus) :wink: and took a few snaps so you guys could have a look. The guy in the shop didnt have a price and asked me to ring back later and said that they could make any colour you want out of their factory.
If anyone is interested I would gladly price em up with postage. And mail them out if needed.

Image
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:09 am 
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Location: Venice, Florida
:o Fantastic post & pics Ants! Hope Hobie takes note. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:39 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
That bra fits beautifully on that bow. Let us know the price.

I like to surf a bit and would consider one,

Finn better start making them in 'Dune"! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Be aware that those pics are showing the wave deflector on Fins yaks, NOT Hobie Adventures... :-)

It'd be great if fins could modify it so that it makes a proper fit on the nose of an A.I....

Cheers,

Mike.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:59 am 
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Location: Perth, Australia
Ants wrote:
Hi, from West Australia, Im new around here (as I recently bought an awesome new AI!)

Western australia is the home of Finn Kayaks. The company that makes the wave deflectors that Shufoy modified for his AI.
I stopped into their shopfront and found only one (in vintage hibiscus) :wink: and took a few snaps so you guys could have a look. The guy in the shop didnt have a price and asked me to ring back later and said that they could make any colour you want out of their factory.
If anyone is interested I would gladly price em up with postage. And mail them out if needed.

Another Perthian, let me know if you are keen on a few day trips

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:22 am 
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Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
If enough of us are interested, and are willing to all place an order at once, with the understanding that delivery will be slow at first....

would this shop be interested in developing such a deflector specifically for the TI?

And the shop and potential buyers shouldn't be worried about shipping costs. I live on a 17 x 2 mile island in the British West Indies. We are now experienced in importing goodies, from both USA and UK, and it's real easy for something like this. This is how I would guess it would go.

1. ) Contact shop for a quote, price and delivery of the Deflector, delivered to your address.
2.) Shop calls UPS with package and destination info, and UPS gives them a price.
3.) Shop gets back to you with the quote. Price delivered, and how long.
4.) You give shop your credit card number, or contact your bank for a bank transfer but I doubt this is familiar to most people. There's usually a bank fee. It's not a big deal, but the credit card is by far the best way to pay the shop. If the shop isn't set up for CC, maybe they would consider joining PayPal. That would make it easy too. But CC still best.
5.) When the deflector you ordered is ready, shop calls UPS. They show up at door, shop fills out a UPS International shipping form and UPS takes it away. Shop should be billing your CC for the total at this time.Including UPS shipping costs.
About two to three business days later...
6.) UPS delivers to your door, and you might have to pay them an additional US Customs duty, and a clearance fee. No biggie. Give em yer CC number or write em a check. It wouldn't be much if there even IS a duty on it. Piece of plastic recreational boat part or something similar.

See, it's not difficult. Step by step, and none of it is hard. We do it all the time.

Another approach would be if a shop somewhere, like Austin Kayak, would commit to a quantity buy. We could give a bunch of orders to the shop in the US, etc.


I'll put an order in, if it'll help. I want a yellow one sent UPS to the British West Indies.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:55 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
I can see the need for bow diving help for the AI, but I haven't seen much problems with my TI until the winds reach 20-25 knots, when the wind surfers are heading out and we should start thinking about heading in.

Do many of you think your TI needs the extra bow buoyancy, or just something to keep dryer in the cockpit like a Sprayskirt. (The TI can be wet, sailing above 6mph)

Here's a video of my TI, mostly sailing 7-10 knots in 15-20+ knot winds, but only up to 3' waves at most. I got wet, but the bow never really dove much like the AI's does. In 4-6+' waves, the TI can cut the tops off of some waves, but much of that can be limited with practice riding the waves, except maybe when beating.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:14 am 
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Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I second Gringo's idea about proposing to Austin Kayak (or similar) about a multiple order of wave deflectors. If enough AI/TI owners would post their vote on a US source, I am sure that an importer would be willing to generate a large enough order to justify the concept.
Maybe we could even get Hobie to think about it...but I have a feeling that Hobie does not wish to sell any product which might affect the performance of their kayaks. Note that Hobie still does not sell an OEM wave skirt. It took quite a long time to convince Hobie that there was a market for tramps...even tho' quite a few owners were sewing up their own (myself included) and then marketing them. Hobie finally realized that there were sales to be made.
PS to owners in Australia...please post if you find a manufacturer that sells a deflector actually designed to fit an AI/TI. I think that there would be a considerable market here in the US, even if we would have to order individual units.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:45 am 
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Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
Are TI and AI bows identical? I've never seen an AI in person.

I think I need the bow flotation/lift, in addition to the spray skirts. Which I also need. We have to share one channel with 40+ sport fishing boats, water taxi ferries, etc. They don't slow for kayaks. Or sailboats. They don't have to. There is no law about it. I think the attitude here is that if you can't boat with the big dogs, you should go find someplace more to your liking.

And they kick up a steep, short three foot chop that is murder. Way too stacked up to ride over.

Then we just have our usual ocean chop and swells in the 15-20 mph trade winds we have here.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:22 am 
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Hey Gringo I got my first taste of big boat wake yesterday otherwise the river was calm. It wad fun to watch the paddling kayakers ride the wake.

Finn quoted $AU 100 each. Which is basically $US 100, though the lady I spoke too said they would discount depending on the number ordered. And I'm guessing no more than $20-30 for shipping.
I also asked if her if they would consider making one especially for the AI (is the TI different?). She said she would ask the guy who's in charge and get back to me. No harm in asking eh...

Hi Chaosdave, It would definitely be good catchup and go sailing oneday soon!


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