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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 393
Location: CLEARWATER, MN
Matt...
Do you have any estimate on when you might have a fix for the Starboard Steering problem for the TI?

I spent the day on the upwind side of a lake...wind averaged 15 knots with gusts to 27 knots.
Wave heights were only a max of 1 foot. 9 out of 10 runs where my GPS showed
hull speed exceeding 9 knots...the starboard steering went out!

I had the sail furled enough to minimize most tendency for weather-helm but enough area to get the TI up to a good speed...I wanted to see if just fast water past the rudder would pop it out. In half the runs I waded out into waist deep water to make certain that the rudder was down and correctly in the groove. For the other half of the runs, I turned the rudder to a port heading so that the rudder would drop sharply into the groove...on four of the runs I slid to the rear to inspect the rudder to affirm that the rudder was in the groove as far as it could go. I also had the down rudder line tension cammed tight with the rudder 'cap' tensioned with the recommended gap.

Yet as soon as a good gust came up and the TI began to really accelerate...when I hit over
9 knots...consistently the rudder popped loose and I lost starboard steering. I would jam over
to port and put the TI into irons...raise the rudder...drop it sharply...get going again...and
as soon as the TI really began to fly the rudder would pop back out again.
I could also get the rudder to pop out at slightly slower speeds by sharply trying a starboard
tack into the wind. If the hull was really moving...in excess of 8 knots the rudder would pop out!

I assure you that in almost all of the trials I visually inspected the rudder in its 'locked' position and the rudder 'cap' was tensioned so that the requisite gap was there.

It appears that at least with my TI...I cannot trust sailing it in anything more than gentle breezes...any stiff wind and I am in deep *@#%.

For the rest of the day...I launched my AI and had a blast...I buried the bow and lee amas quite a few times but never had a bit of trouble with steering.

I would really like to use the TI but at this point, I guess, if the wind is strong...I will not
be sailing the Tandem.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 309
Great testing; hope there is a fix before my spring/summer comes

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 245
Location: Plant City, Fl.
Tidalwave;
Good testing. The fastest I have had my TI up to is 11 MPH by my GPS and I have not seen the fade of the starboard steering. We have not had the wind yet to get the hull speed high enough yet. The only time I had the rudder pop loose was my own fault (sandbar). Both centerboard and rudder popped up. Hope that Matt and Hobie come up with a fix soon.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
With such strong wind gusts do you think that may have been a factor?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:44 am
Posts: 158
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
I doubt the strong wind gusts is a factor. The force of the wind isn't strong enough to pull the rudder out of its groove.

I suggest it is the increased water pressure exerted on the rudder at speeds above 8 knots.

At slower speeds, there is insufficient water pressure exerted on the rudder to force it to pop out. At faster speeds, the increased water pressure exerted on the rudder will force it to pop out. The spectra line will chafe and snap.

The AI has a smaller rudder and shorter mast, sails at slightly slower speeds with decreased forces on the rudder.
The TI has a larger rudder and taller mast, sails at greater speeds with increased forces on the rudder.

On our new TI, all the rudder lines (up, down, left and right) have severe chafing after 2 months of ownership.

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Marc K
2010 Hobie Tandem Island
Boynton Beach, FL


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8601
Location: Oceanside, California
With gusts to 27... you are pushing it a bit.

There is no "fix" yet as there is no consistent problem. I sailed a TI for 3 days this week without even using the down cleat. No problems, no loss of steering at all and strong winds.

I suspect variances in rudder tuning as the major factor, but nothing yet nailed down other than what has already been posted in the forums.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:16 am
Posts: 238
Location: HISC Chichester Harbour UK
TIDALWAVE wrote:
Matt...
Do you have any estimate on when you might have a fix for the Starboard Steering problem for the TI?

I spent the day on the upwind side of a lake...wind averaged 15 knots with gusts to 27 knots.
Wave heights were only a max of 1 foot. 9 out of 10 runs where my GPS showed
hull speed exceeding 9 knots...the starboard steering went out!

I had the sail furled enough to minimize most tendency for weather-helm but enough area to get the TI up to a good speed...I wanted to see if just fast water past the rudder would pop it out. In half the runs I waded out into waist deep water to make certain that the rudder was down and correctly in the groove. For the other half of the runs, I turned the rudder to a port heading so that the rudder would drop sharply into the groove...on four of the runs I slid to the rear to inspect the rudder to affirm that the rudder was in the groove as far as it could go. I also had the down rudder line tension cammed tight with the rudder 'cap' tensioned with the recommended gap.

Yet as soon as a good gust came up and the TI began to really accelerate...when I hit over
9 knots...consistently the rudder popped loose and I lost starboard steering. I would jam over
to port and put the TI into irons...raise the rudder...drop it sharply...get going again...and
as soon as the TI really began to fly the rudder would pop back out again.
I could also get the rudder to pop out at slightly slower speeds by sharply trying a starboard
tack into the wind. If the hull was really moving...in excess of 8 knots the rudder would pop out!

I assure you that in almost all of the trials I visually inspected the rudder in its 'locked' position and the rudder 'cap' was tensioned so that the requisite gap was there.

It appears that at least with my TI...I cannot trust sailing it in anything more than gentle breezes...any stiff wind and I am in deep *@#%.

For the rest of the day...I launched my AI and had a blast...I buried the bow and lee amas quite a few times but never had a bit of trouble with steering.

I would really like to use the TI but at this point, I guess, if the wind is strong...I will not
be sailing the Tandem.


What direction were you sailing compared to the wind direction? Is there a correlation with upwind being more prone
I would imagine that downwind will reduce the side loading?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 46
Location: Naples, FL
TIDALWAVE wrote:
Matt...
I would really like to use the TI but at this point, I guess, if the wind is strong...I will not
be sailing the Tandem.

Tidalwave...
The temporary fixes as described in the sixth post down entitled "A temporary fix"
here, viewtopic.php?f=71&t=25549&start=30
have worked for me flawlessly. I have not had a problem as of yet and have been out several times now and a couple of those were in stiff and steady winds and more than a light chop.
You should attempt your own version of these mods to keep the fun at maximum levels until a permanent fix is provided by Hobie.


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