Which kayak should I get? Outfitter or TI

Hello,

I need some help deciding between the outfitter and TI. I have a Chevy 2500HD Duramax diesel pickup with a Leer cap and tow a travel trailer. The Leer cap has the fishing package with Thule racks. The kayak will be transported on top of the cap/Thule racks.

I will use my kayak 50% of the time as a standalone kayak, 10% for summer camping in the Everglades National Park and 40% for sailing. We also want to fish out of our kayak.

My wife and I rented an Oasis for a few hours. The oasis was a 2009 that had been well used. (rental) The Oasis rocked back and forth a bit but felt stable. Lisa was impressed with how easy it was to pedal and how fast we moved. We traveled 3.5 miles against a 15 mph wind and one foot chop in about 1.5 hour with standard fins. The problem was I weigh 260 pounds and have wide shoulders. The cockpit was too narrow. I had no place to put my right arm. The left arm was working the rudder. The Oasis weight capacity is 550 pounds. Our combined weight 260 + 130 = 390 pounds. This would leave some room for camping gear. Due to the narrow cockpit we said no to the Oasis.

The Outfitter appears to be very stable. It has the rod holders and a wider cockpit. It appears more comfortable. With its 450 pound weight capacity and small amount of storage we will not be able to camp out of it. But it will be easy to put on top of my truck cap. I have not rented one yet.

I looked at the TI at my dealer. He had three in and sold them in a few weeks. It looks like it will have enough room for several days camping. (We need three gallons of water a day for summer camping. Water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon. 24.9 pounds for one day). It has a wide cockpit with a 600 pound capacity. But the kayak alone weighs 116 to 120 pounds. I lifted the front then the back of the TI at the dealer. It is heavy but I think I can get it on top of my truck cap alone without any problems. 50% of the time I will use it as a standalone tandem kayak on Florida rivers, Florida cannels, in the Everglades and on small lakes. Don’t know about hunting.

Because I have to get the sail kit and side kicks for the Outfitter, the price difference is about $1,500.00 US.

Is the TI too much kayak for me? What would you do if you were me?

I have no real experience kayaking and less experience sailing. I love the water and don’t want to get another power boat.

It is a no-brainer, get a TI. If you are interested in sailing and camping, you will outgrow the Outfitter fairly quickly.

Plenty of people w/ little sailing experience handle the TI fine.

I would suggest you do NO SUMMER CAMPING IN SOUTH FLORIDA (ALL FLORIDA?). Camping in SFL starts in November, preferably not earlier than Thanksgiving until you have experience.

You can nicely combine sailing a TI and camping--see my 9-page thread which details my experiences using an AI and camping in SFL. The link: http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276

Good luck!

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I just got the TI. I'm 5'6.5", 160lbs with a not perfect but OK back. I considered trying to get it on top of my Dodge Durango, but ultimately I got a mail order trailer. The TI is just under 200lbs when rigged, and if it were any heavier I would not be able to get it off of the trailer (using the plug-in wheels) and into the water by myself. I haven't used the trailer on a boat ramp yet.

The TI is awsome! Honestly though I don't really want to un-rig it to use it as a regular kayak very often. In your case you might want to keep it set up as a regular kayak and then just rig it for sailing when you want to do that.

In kayak mode the hull is heavier than a regular tandem would be, and the AKA connectors are permenantly connected to the deck. You can remove the mainsheet while in Kayak mode, but I just leave it there.

It kicks when both people are peddling, but it really goes under sail!

It is *much* easier to sail than a regular sailboat. The mirage drives make it easy to work with while you are getting underway or returning, the square sail dumps extra wind if you are getting to much, the roller furling mainsail makes reefing easy in higher winds, and it's almost impossible to tip over.


I'm looking forward to camping in the Everglades this winter myself!

Good luck!

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2010 Tandem Island!

TI has my vote as well. You and your wife will love it, especially if you get the tramps!

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Cheers, Max ● TI: the "Yella Terra" ● Website: www.MadYakker.com ● YouTube: madyakkermax

I own both, get the TI. The cool thing is you can leave the Akas/Amas/Sail all at home and have a great kayak for those river trips. I would recommend a trailer though. Setup with a trailer is a couple of minutes and dropping it off at the ramp it soooo much easier than wheeling it down from a parking lot. I have wheels in case I need to that though.

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I'd rather be sailing,
Mark.

I'd go with the TI for two reasons, the weight that you intend to carry, and the sailing capabilities. I've had my AI out within 30 lbs of the weight limit of 350, and it's not the same boat. Also, Hobie and other kayak users may not like this, but really, anything but the AI or TI are kayaks that happen to have a sail, they're not really sailboats. The TI and AI are well designed to sail. If you're thinking about sailing for fun, then the TI is the no brainer. If you simply want the sail to assist you in getting from point A to point B, then you could consider the other models.

I use my AI in kayak mode all the time and I'm extremely impressed with how well it works as a kayak. The TI doesn't sell the same hull in purely kayak mode, but the mirage drive has a way of taking a less then sleek boat and making it feel like a much faster, more capable boat.

Really, the only drawbacks to the TI are it's weight, and it's length (and maybe it's price) Those are the factors that kept me from getting the TI, and instead going for the AI.

The other thing that you might want to consider if you have TI money is getting two single seat Hobie kayaks. The Outback has good weight capacity, and can sail, the Revolution is a bit sleeker and supposedly faster and might be good for your wife. The Adventure is quite fast for a kayak, and of course can be upgraded to the AI, or can simply have the sail kit.



I agree with captain-max about the tramps, but keep in mind that the weight limit on them is 200 lbs, so your wife would be ok on them, but you would be beyond their capacity.



If you have to trailer the TI, you won't be able to take your travel trailer at the same time.

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Thanks for the replies.

I thought about two hobies for the price of a TI. But a tandem wouold be better for us. Lisa knows nothing about kayaks. I am doing all the research. She is impressed with the Hobie and has given me permession to purchase the kayak that will be best for us. I tow a travel trailer and will not be able to trailer the kayak. I want to take my kayak camping with me. Yes some times I will go kayaking only.

I have learned in life to purchase what you want the first time. The second time may never happen.

I talked to a dealer in Naples FL who says for me to get the Outfitter. My local dealer will not advise me what to get, He said it is is up to me. However, he sold his AI will get the TI later.

I know I am different. I want to use the TI as a kayak first and sail second. From what I have read here on the forums, I think the TI would be a great kayak. Most people I talk to say I will not have a problem with an 18.6 foot kayak. The weight of theTIi is my concern.

I moved to Florida in 1976 and have been camping in the Evergaldes National Park in the summer for that time. I like it because their are lots of bugs that keep the people away, the fishing is great and the heat does not bother us. In the winter I can't get in a campground due to the snow birds.

Woops missed that part about the travel trailer.

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I'd rather be sailing,
Mark.

With hull width being a main requirement, if you found the Oasis to narrow at 33" wide, then the Adventure (AI) will also probably be to narrow as it is only 27.5" wide and the TI (hull only) 30" wide, so you may be forced to go with the Outfitter or two Outbacks for the seating width you require.
This would also help make loading easier with the Thule loader you have and if you were to go for two Outbacks, you would also have a greater carry capacity as long as your wife does not mind the extra gear on her kayak. Possibly you could rig them as a cat (side by side) increasing stability while sharing drive load?
If you were to go for the Outfitter with a sail and pontoon kit, the money you save could go towards a mule/trailer (cheap) kayak to stow your camp gear if required for extended trips, once again, possibly you could rig them as a cat (side by side) increasing stability.
As for sail-ability Outfitter/Outback neither will compare to the AI/TI even with the extra pontoons fitted but they do sail ok as an assistance to the Mirage drive. Due to the extra hull width, The Outfitter and Outback do not paddle great, something to also keep in the back of your mind.

I am not sure about the water quality where you are as I am an Aussie, but a friend of mine reduces the water weight/quantity he carries with a desalination filter pump and purification tablets, cut it back to two days worth that you carry and replenish each day the one days worth you have consumed. I did read somewhere that the desal pump can also double as a hull pump in an emergency, (not sure on the truth of that as I do not own one to try it).

I've thought about this, but the problem that I see is that if one person is pedalling just a little bit harder then the other person, then the boat would be forced to turn. You could control this with the rudder, but if you do that you are losing efficiency as you're essentially dragging the rudder through the water. The other problem is that both rudders are not connected, meaning that you have to make sure that they are both dead centre when going straight, and equally turned while turning, otherwise, again, you'd be dragging them. You might gain stability, but you would lose the speed and efficiency.

Not a bad idea actually. The mirage drive gives lots of torque, so compared to paddling, the weight doesn't effect you nearly as much. My 130 pound wife can carry quite a bit of weight on her kayak without any complaints. We use turbo fins, which actually add resistance, but she still has no problems carrying weight.

My only argument against going for two outbacks is that your wife may want a bit more of a sleeker, or faster boat. If she's half your weight, she might not have your power, and she certainly doesn't have the width requirements, so getting her a boat that might be a little faster then yours might pay off in more enjoyable trips as she isn't working as hard as you to maintain the same speed.

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I've got an Outback SUV and and AI - with the AI in kayak mode only, it makes the Outback feel like a tugboat. My wife and I switched off between the two and the outback required constant pedaling to keep up with a lazy 4-pedal and glide rythem on the AI ... it is a much draggy'er hull.

I'd say get the TI and use it often. A few months of lifting it up onto the truck and pedalling all day will have you back to a svelte 200# in no time

Dont be suprised if you spend ALOT more time sailing it though

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Alan W.

Papaya AI2 to replace my well worn V1
TheTwins - His/Hers 2007 Papaya Hobie Adventure Island's (v1.00.01)
.. and a Hobie Outback SUV

Sunyak,

On the question of kayak stability. There is a discussion on the Hobie Fishing forum (viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13443&start=0) about capsizing.. A fellow says he flipped his Outback SUV and asks for advice for a beginner. At least half the responses question how it is possible to flip an Outback, but offer advice on how to avoid flipping. The other half tell him how to get back in. Here is a picture of my friend Jon in a sea kayak—21.5” wide. Jon is about 6’ 2” or 3” and weighs 230# or more. We are paddling out Spring Warrior Creek (Big Bend area of Florida) to the Gulf of Mexico. We fish from these sea kayaks and have hooked 100# tarpon and large sharks (we don’t try to boat these fish!) BTW, we are both loaded down with camping equipment, supplies, and water for an 8-day trip along the Big Bend coast of FL.


A tandem Adventure Island in kayak mode is a very stable kayak. Your wife would probably have a difficult time capsizing one on her own. You could capsize one by leaning too far over the side. The key to keeping kayaks upright is to keep the upper part of your body centered over the kayak—in other words, keep your head over your crotch. When I use my AI in kayak mode to fish, I take a break by sitting side-saddle—that is, both legs over the same side—but I keep my whole upper body over the center of the boat.

Planned usage of a TI.

The tiny font in Sunyak’s quote is my change. Camping in S Florida during the summer is something that tourists occasionally do. Locals, who have more time in the summer than the winter, occasionally do it, but once is usually enough except for those who want to prove their manhood further. My advice is, if you want to keep your wife at your side on kayak-camping trips, DO NOT CAMP IN SOUTH FLORIDA DURING THE SUMMER (JUNE-OCTOBER). If you camp in the Florida “winter,” you only need to carry 1 gal of water/person/day—even a bit less on short (2-3 day) trips.

I will comfortably predict that, if you get a TI, your percentages stated above will change significantly, especially when you realize you can sail, fish, and camp on the same trip.

An acquaintance, who just got his TI, sent this picture—it was his maiden voyage using his TI to deep-sea fish. Steve caught this fish 5 miles off Juno Park in Palm Beach. I’m sure he sailed to his fishing grounds.


Transportation/Storage of TI. RoadRunner has a couple posts on this forum about loading the TI onto his pickup—his pickup has a “plumber’s rack” (for lack of a better term.) Checkout his recent posts.

There is a whole Hobie forum devoted to “Transportation and Storage” of AIs and TIs. http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewforum.php?f=73

This later item, transportation of your TI, may give you the biggest pause when buying a TI. Personally, I would not buy a TI with the idea of car/pickup topping it. Using a trailer is a luxury, but almost a necessity in my mind. Trailers do not have to be expensive.

BTW, getting 2 outbacks--that sounds like a bummer to me. Sailing all day is much easier and more relaxing than paddling/pedaling all day. Now, if money is not a major concern, I might consider 2 AIs rather than a TI. That is the option my wife and I have chosen. Many years ago when we took up sea kayaking, we made the same decision--solo sea kayaks rather than tandem.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

The width of the Oasis is 33 inches. But I think the cockpit is less then 30 inches. If you look at the Oasis you see the pontoons or side pieces use up a lot of the 33 inches. I wear a size 40 pants, so I am not that big. But I do have large forearms. The problem I had with the Oasis was that I did not have any place to rest my right arm. Also it was a rental, the seat and drive were not adjusted properly. They also gave me a bulky PDF that was hot.

The outfitter appeared to have a wider cockpit with places to rest my arms. My wife had to go to New York to take care of her sick sister. When she comes back to FL I will rent the outfitter. I will make sure to have it adjusted right before we take it out.

The TI looks like the tandem kayak that will be best for us. I have read every post related to transporting the TI. I think I can car top it. I may get a trailer for the times we are not towing the travel trailer.

Anyway I will get busy on a storage rack for my garage.

My wife does not have enough experience to have her own kayak. Maybe one day, but not now. We require a tandem.

My wife also wants us to take sailing lessons before we purchase the TI. I showed her all of the youtube videos I could find. I think she would like to sail.

Here's your Outfitter:


As you can see, your weight difference will kick the bow up and squat the stern quite a bit. Oasis and Outfitter cockpits are about the same size, although the deck width is greater with the Outfitter. Speed on the Outfitter is quite a bit slower than the Oasis.

If this guy can car-top the TI on a lumber rack, almost anybody can with a little practice


Whether or not to kayak tandem has nothing to do with the various models, but should be solely based on the individual preferences and needs. Here's a friend and his wife on their Oasis -- he fishes and she reads. He's in charge of propulsion -- she pitches in when necessary. She usually packs a little lunch, they have a blast together:


Before you make a final decision on the best model kayak, check to see if Hobie has any changes in store for the '11 line up -- they'll announce any changes probably within the next week or so.

If its only because you want somewhere to rest your arms verse width and the Oasis was comfortable apart from that, then TI will not be an issue and would be my pick, you just cannot beat the diversity of the AI/TI concept.
The main issue with it would be the loading/unloading. Are there any members of the forum or dealers that are close who would not mind showing you there craft and to see if it can safely be loaded on your ute. Only way to know, is to have a go!!



Yes probably right on both counts, only reason I suggested it was when I helped out in a school camp on the Murray River here in Australia, we used to clamp with two alloy tubes, two kayaks together for those with less ability and confidence, they actually handle quite well, but the were using paddle not pedal. As for the two rudders, if you were to upgrade to the large AI blade and only have one down, you would not be fighting/working against the second, when extra turn torque was needed you could flick the second one down to assist and then re lift, only a thought, be interesting to actually find out if it would work and how the perform.

In the end though, why bother, just no match for an AI/TI, forget I mentioned it