Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:45 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: broken rudder
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:08 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:31 am
Posts: 5
Just got back from Tahoe where we rented a tandem Adventure island from 'Enviro' in Kings beach. loved the craft and we were out in up to 25mph winds, white caps, the only vessel on the lake at that time. The craft sailed great! it was very wet as we pierced through waves and chop. We were in about a thousand feet of water off State line point when the steering rudder fin snapped off! We had no steering! things got real ugly, the gal who rigged up the craft had the line which rolls up the sail on the mast in such a way so as I couldn't roll it up! it was wound the wrong way! the winds and waves sent us down wind, I let out the sail line to luff the sail but the cleat cought the knot which kept the sail somewhat full which sent us flying downwind and fast!. The craft did great, did not submarine or get sideways despite no rudder, the center board was down. I managed to undo the knot, re thread the line through the cleat and roll the sail up on the mast. We paddled like mad to a sheltered cove where I found the damage. The rudder just snapped off just below the bolts which fastens it to the joint mechanism that folds it up and onto the stern deck. We hit nothing and were in really deep water a quarter mile off shore in the deep State line trench.

I think the rudder is not beefy enough where it snapped, the material looked thin and grainy. There was a lot of lateral forces with the waves and strong winds with the tandem. I noticed when we got back, 'an hour and a half of peddling against the wind and waves, and straining with the paddle to steer', that the rudder looked the same as the single person craft on the beach. If that's the case I think it needs to be strengthened.

We only got to sail about 3/4 an hour on our all day rental.

Any problems anyone with the rudders?

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:56 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:53 pm
Posts: 232
Do you have any pictures?

I'm trying to envision where it broke off. Did the rudder pin break? or did the bolts holding the rudder assembly shear or come loose?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Kailua 96734
Looks like two in one day, stevobike.

Awesome, scary picts here:
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=30056&start=0

_________________
"THE WIND IS YOUR FRIEND,.."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:45 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:49 am
Posts: 403
Location: Point Lookout, Maryland
Jeez...

Up until a few weeks ago I hadn't experienced any rudder problems other than some stiffness turning to starboard, then the issues arrived in a rush. So far my local dealer has been stellar at fixing them and we've been proactive about making sure we have redundancies in place for most of everything each time we go out now.

_________________
Mitch
    2010 Tandem Island
    2010 Revolution
    Chesapeake Bay and Eastern Shore
My sailing blog
Our sailing videos


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:57 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2237
Location: Maui, Hawaii
whosyerbob wrote:
... and we've been proactive about making sure we have redundancies in place for most of everything each time we go out now.
Now that's hardcore sailing, like we do in the Islands! :o :shock: :lol: 8)

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:39 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:31 am
Posts: 5
That,s exactly where the rudder broke off on the one I rented! The picture shows it perfectly. I think the material is a bit thin there for the tandem. I think fiberglass would be better, it could be made thinner too with less drag.

Stevobike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:31 am
Posts: 5
[quote="NOHUHU"]Looks like two in one day, stevobike.

Awesome, scary picts here:


Wow, looks just like what happened to my rudder! I would need to see a fix before I buy one, way to scary to be out the way we were without steering even though we had the paddle.

Stevobike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:53 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:31 am
Posts: 5
JollyGreen wrote:
Do you have any pictures?

I'm trying to envision where it broke off. Did the rudder pin break? or did the bolts holding the rudder assembly shear or come loose?



See the pics from Nohuho's photos of his broken rudder. Its exactly the same. I had the rental guy tell me I hit something in over a thousand feet of water! In lake tahoe.

Stevobike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:06 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:54 pm
Posts: 11
Hi Stevobike,

I'm the proud owner of the snapped rudder that nohuhu alluded to in his post.

Quote:
I had the rental guy tell me I hit something

In that case, have your rental guy call me...or refer him to the pictures in my post. If you (or I) had hit something, I concede there would have been the possibility for something to break, but I think that would have caused damage to the twist and stow mechanism or the front of the fin. This sort of damage in this case is obviously caused by a lateral load (i.e., the force of the water on the deflected rudder) snapping the fin, not by something striking it head on. If you had indeed hit something hard enough to break the rudder, you'd also surmise there would be some accompanying damage on the centerboard.

To carry over from that other post there's some discussion on why these rudders snapped where they did
Quote:
When I went in to my dealer today, he gave me a loaner part to use for a while until my replacement TI rudder comes in. What I didn't realize is that the TI-specific rudder (part number 88991185 "rudder assy / TI blade") is different from the "large sailing rudder" - part number 81397001. I'm interested to see if the boat will be at all manageable with the smaller rudder installed - has anyone tested this? I'm skeptical, but it should be fun to try.

More importantly, after getting the temporary rudder replacement in hand, a visual comparison of the two is somewhat telling regarding why the TI's may be more prone to the type of failure now experienced by at least two of us. Shown below are the TI rudder (top) and the large sailing rudder on the bottom.

Image

Image

What I hadn't realized prior to comparing the two is (A) just how much of the TI rudder's surface area is forward of its pivot point (probably aiding reducing the forces needed to turn the rudder), and (B) how "skinny" the rudder is at exactly the point where mine snapped. There are a lot of lateral forces (and some torque, as well) being applied to a very small cross-sectional area there.


Cheers,

-Charlie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 309
WOW :o :o
When you see the pics, you can see the potential force at the front of the rudder. There is nothing protecting it from the shear forces.

Who would have thunk.

_________________
Paul, Rebecca & Stephanie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:49 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2035
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
The rudder shear pin is designed to break before the rudder suffers damage so even if you did hit something the rudder blade should be safe.
I'm hoping this is a bad batch of rudders and not a design problem. This glass reinforced nylon is very strong and there have been no posts that I remember reading regarding the AI rudder or even the new AI daggerboard breaking like this.
BTW -losing a rudder is not such a problem and is probably better overcome with a Hobie than any other kayak. I have steered both AI and TI solely with the paddle while sailing and it is do-able. If the conditions are severe furl the sail accordingly or remove the mast and pedal back using the paddle as a rudder. You certainly have more options for a safe return with the Hobie! 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:01 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:49 am
Posts: 403
Location: Point Lookout, Maryland
stringy wrote:
BTW -losing a rudder is not such a problem and is probably better overcome with a Hobie than any other kayak. I have steered both AI and TI solely with the paddle while sailing and it is do-able. If the conditions are severe furl the sail accordingly or remove the mast and pedal back using the paddle as a rudder. You certainly have more options for a safe return with the Hobie!

I've sailed 4 miles of a 10 mile return trip with a paddle in high winds (we hit a top speed of 8.9 mph on that trip!), so I can say the same thing. However, it was full-on panic-time when the rudder first gave way, as we were in a very narrow channel with a fast current and solid winds - we had all sorts of gear flying out of the way as I was trying to get my hands on the paddle.

But once the paddle was in the water, it was all good.

_________________
Mitch
    2010 Tandem Island
    2010 Revolution
    Chesapeake Bay and Eastern Shore
My sailing blog
Our sailing videos


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:54 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Colorado
Quote:
full-on panic-time


Shouldnt any good sailing day include a little bit of this :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:18 am
Posts: 466
Location: Texas
That's funny.

I have an extra rudder assembly - guess I should take it with me on the boat "Just in case".

_________________
Image
I'd rather be sailing,
Mark.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: broken rudder
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:41 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:31 am
Posts: 5
walt wrote:
Quote:
full-on panic-time


Shouldnt any good sailing day include a little bit of this :lol:



Oh yes! What do you think my wife and I are talking about most, and what brought us together most on our Tahoe trip? I call it bonding through adversity. I can't wait to get my hands on another AI tandem sail.

Stevobike


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group