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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:43 pm 
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From those pics provided it looks like the plastic is not thick enough around the scupper tubes. My understanding of the roto molding process is that it should provide an even thickness of plastic everywhere but the scupper tubes are difficult to mold. Problems can occur where not enough plastic material is deposited in the area during the process.
I'd be taking Julian Patrick's advice and get the thickness of those tubes checked.
If the tube is of the correct thickness and Hobie won't warrant the hull then the repairs detailed using Scotchweld and PVC pipes should be fine. That area is not subject to stress in normal use like a drivewell or camlock tube. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:19 pm 
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TJ wrote:
If it's too hard to reach for the PVC inside patch, you could take one inch outside diameter PVC, paste it with marine goop and shove it into the scupper holes. Once it sets up, coat the edges of the PVC with more goop or the weld product. I think that would hold. You wouldn't be able to use the wheels in them, but they would still drain. If you can reach inside, you might want to use both methods for peace of mind.

Ted


What if you then put some PVC pieces on the cart that would fit inside the new PVC pieces in the scuppers? Slightly taller cart okay?

I am assuming I won't have these problems with a trailer, right?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Or go with a more traditional kayak cart - might be easier to get on and off anyway, particularly in the water.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:11 pm 
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Quote:
My understanding of the roto molding process is that it should provide an even thickness of plastic everywhere but the scupper tubes are difficult to mold.


The material is far from even throughout.

Yes, scuppers are very difficult to mold and are thinner than the rest of the hull. The process causes materials to gather in depressions and thin over humps in the mold. Imagine the hull contours inside-out. The rails are thickest. Areas like bottoms of can holders are thinner.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:48 pm 
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I don't know what the US consumer laws are like, but if they're anything like Australia's, goods are supposed to be "fit for the purpose for which they are intended". Flaneur doesn't appear to have been negligent here. His only sin appears to be not having the strength of a powerlifter. I would have thought that Hobie should look into reinforcing the scupper tubes or at least issuing a strong warning to users about using a scupper cart with the TI in situations where they may not be able to lift the boat off. This seems to be the first time this has been reported, so we cannot necessarily blame Hobie for not anticipating the problem, but if I was Mr Hobie, I would consider providing Flaneur with a new hull, as a gesture of goodwill and in thanks to him for beta-testing their product.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:01 pm 
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No... not the first time. We are looking at ways to reinforce these areas better. Scuppers and scupper cart problems are a known in the kayak industry. we do warn and notify of the issue of potential cart damage. This is not a problem with "fit for the purpose for which they are intended". Scuppers are drains and function as such. When used for carts... it is the upper cockpit floor and the hull bottom which take the load when carts are installed. Care must be taken as would be the case with countless other products in specific situations.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Fair enough Matt. I'm not trying to be argumentative and I know that similar things have happened with AI's in the past, though usually due to carelessness on the part of the user. The difference with the TI is it's weight, which can trap an innocent user into the situation which Flaneur found himself in.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:19 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
The material is far from even throughout.


OK. Thanks for clearing that up Matt. I stand corrected. :oops:
I guess the question then is 'What is the minimum thickness required in a scupper tube?'
I have always used scupper carts and have had zero problems. In fact the scupper cart has allowed me to wheel my kayaks much further and with far less problems than an under hull cart. The scupper tubes feel thick and strong on my Oasis and both AI's. I'll have to check the TI a bit more thoroughly. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Pm sent


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:55 am 
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Those scupper tubes do look a bit thin in the pic, but from the sound of the incident and the look of the damage, thicker ones would not have survived either. Putting most of the weight of the boat on a scupper tube wall is going to bust it. I don't see how this could be a warranty issue.

Sorry about your misfortune, and I do think "sank" is the right word for what happened. If the alternative is recycling an almost-new hull, I'd try all kinds of ways of repairing it first. I might even fill the entire scupper hole top to bottom with a solid blob of 5200. No more scuppers, but no more leak either. Carry a small manual bilge pump.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:17 am 
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I was amazed when I saw this post & began reading immediately. Glad to hear you're okay; I too think that the hull CAN be repaired. Even so, it’ll be some time before you really trust the repair.

When I bought my TI, I was concerned about the possibility of taking on unusually large quantities of water in some strange and unforeseen situation exactly like what happened to you... or worse. With that in mind, I purchased THREE kayak float bags and clipped them into the hull's interior: one inside the bow, one inside the stern, and one amidships. Each bag can be inflated by mouth or by pump. I keep them ~80% inflated so they can expand in the heat without bursting. And yes, there’s still plenty of room for cargo. With these bags properly installed, I could fill the hull with water, and still remain afloat. Additionally, I always carry a hand-operated bilge pump, and yes, I have used it unexpectedly when out on my sea kayak (which also has multiple float bags).

I know the TI is a tri-hull boat, and it’s unlikely that more than one hull would completely flood at any one time. Moreover, I've read that the amas on the TI each have ~200 lbs of buoyancy. That would be a volume equal to ~25 gallons of water in each (numbers rounded). Nonetheless, I still use the abovementioned float bags. They’re considered standard equipment on any sea kayak.

Check out http://www.nrsweb.com and search for "flotation". Here's what I use:

NRS Standard Kayak Flotation - Item #42081
Patterned so that a single bag fills the entire stern compartment of a kayak designed without a center pillar. Available in three sizes to fit everything from the smallest rodeo kayak to the largest recreational boat. These Infinity series float bags use a 10-gauge Urethane fabric that won't leak or...

I hope the above info is helpful to you and others. Best wishes on your situation, and good luck getting back on the water.

RC

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Quote:
I purchased THREE kayak float bags and clipped them into the hull's interior


Fyi... All Hobie kayaks since 2011 production have positive flotation foam inserted within the hulls as a safety feature. This is required for NMMA certification of the product and something we felt was an important safety feature for kayaks. We have always had positive flotation in our sailboats.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:16 pm 
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Hi Matt

Where in the hull will these foam inserts be located? When did 2011 models started begin produced? What serial number do they start from?

Cheers

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:59 pm 
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If it is any consolation to the original poster - I bought my AI second hand this past May. The boat is a model year 2007, and it too suffered from a cart-induced scupper hole rupture shortly after purchase (in 2007).

It was taken back to the dealer where they used the Hobie welding technique ... and the owner then filled the scupper hole with some form of epoxy to further aid in sealing, I surmise.

The cart I now use is of the type that doesn't "plug in" to the scupper holes ... but to me that is a small price to pay for being able to save the hull.

... otherwise the hull has been sound and dry since the repair was effected. I know the original owner sailed it often, and I was anything but easy on it this past season

Wishing you the best ...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Varies by model as to where, but up in the rail areas I believe. Serial numbers for 2011 production ends in 011. Started building 2011s in August I believe.

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