Hobie Cat Forums

This damage was from a harder plastic rudder pin test, over a few months. It was repaired once, but failed again. There was no striking of anything by the rudder. I think it was the constant varying stress passed to the transom area from the rudder. Two of four AI's (the two most used ones) cracked within a week of each other. We then stopped using the harder test pins!


Most people may not realize that the transom area is mostly hollow, and the amount of plastic can vary greatly, like anywhere on the hull.


With most of my AI's, I now fill the transom area with something to stiffening them, like Silicon Adhesive. The proper epoxy would be best but hard to get in Hawaii and expensive. I also use Hobie's gray rudder pins, which we break once in a while. Anyone running harder than designed rudder pins will probably, sooner or later damage their transom beyond repair.

Be careful using hard rudder pins!

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2007, 2009 & 2010 Hobie AIs and a 2010 TI

So just for the record Bob, did the boat with the broken transom have a screw-down or a cleat-down rudder?

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cleat-down rudder.

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2007, 2009 & 2010 Hobie AIs and a 2010 TI

Sorry Chris - that'll teach me to speed (skim) read

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Mickey
2011 AI Golden Papaya
2011 TI Golden Papaya

What about a strong pin in the Ti rather than the Ai as the design is different? Any Ti owners had any experience?

Actually, a first good question might be "has anyone broken a TI rudder pin yet?" I haven't heard of any TI rudder pin problems. Anyone?

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2007, 2009 & 2010 Hobie AIs and a 2010 TI

Hi Bob.

I too haven't heard of any TI pins snapping. But many instances of the TI rudder blades snapping. My rudder blade snapped in half last week. Wish the pin would have snapped instead.

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Marc K
2010 Hobie Tandem Island
Boynton Beach, FL

Yep, lots of problems with the new rudder design. I'm pleasantly surprised that mine has worked flawlessly. But the best news is Hobie is working on the non-twist-n-stow replacement which should fix all our problems. The twist-n-stow was a great engineering design for the kayaks, but just wasn't up to conditions we see at times sailing. Hang in there, Hobie always seems to work at it until the problems are gone. Until then, talk to your dealer and get warranty replacement parts until the new rudder arrives.

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2007, 2009 & 2010 Hobie AIs and a 2010 TI

Julian

I stood my Adventure up against the rear rack on my truck with the end cushioned on the driveway by some carpet backing. Rope held it in place at about 80-85 degrees vertical.

The transom cavity is deep and narrow just about 5" out of reach depending on your arm gymnastics through the rear hatch.

Rough it up with 60 grit. I made a cone and a pencil to push it back and forth. Then take a wet rag, twist it into a cone /cylinder and twirl around to get the grit.

For epoxy I used West Systems G-Flex which they sold in a kit form. Mix up in a cup and pour into a syringe (part of kit). You can get that down in there so you don't have to worry about smearing it all over. Your just squirting into a cavity. IIRC took about 2-3 syringes.

The head of the stainless steel pin I ground a flat space on one side for the steering lines. I use a small cotter pin bend for the bottom pin hole.

I'm careful launching and recovering. So far haven't hit anything. I get the rudder up at the same time I withdraw the drive, use a paddle to steer in if needed.

So far no sign of fatique failure that Bob unfortunately experienced. Nor have do I miss the experience of bobbing around, hanging on the stern with one arm, pliers in the other, two spare rudder pins clutched in my mouth in 4-5 foot swells, overlaid with heavy chop and white caps, heavy winds whistling "Jaws" in my brain.

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Thanks for all the info KB and Dan. This has turned out to be a very informative thread.

One thing I'm bothered about with Hobie is, that I get the feeling that their quality control is poor. That could be disaster for users and the company.

Keith

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I sail: S FL, Key Largo, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

We are a small company... nothing like a major auto or computer maker that has legions of quality control staff which then still experience major issues and recalls.

But, I think some people misunderstand the level of quality control issues we have. By having open discussions on issues here in the forums... they sometimes appear to be more broad-based than what they are. Our over-all warranty percentage, compared to sales, is still quite small.

Some of this is pure volume of sales. Some is the amount of innovation we try to put into production. Some is by being open and honest in regard to issues, by having and supporting our user forums here... problems get focused on. Some of it is just how people use the products.

Then users chime in here that they do not experience the problems being discussed. In example, just now reconlon writes

We'll certainly keep listening and keep trying to improve our products and production processes... which, I believe we have done over the years.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA

Yup, very friendly, they gave me a grey one last week, when I bought my Trax 2 wheels, as the conversations with me always turns to rudder pins and corrosion. Having said that, my current black pin has lasted longer than expected. I had a spread sheet some time back, keeping a very detailed log of sailing conditions, but have given that up.

Geoff

Geoff, have you moved permanently from Port Stephens to Ettalong?

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With multiple AI's and a TI, and great sailing weather year-round, 3-4 times a year we do full maintenance on the boats. That includes a leak test with air exhaust from a small shop vac and soapy water. Also checking that each nut/bold/screw is tight. We also remove rudder pins and look at them. Some of them have a little wear top and bottom, like a line creased. Others we can tell are ready to go, and are replaced.

So keep in mind when you break a pin in lighter conditions that it could have been ready to break from last sail in rougher conditions, or maybe even just heavy use over many outings.

Also, like anything else, you could just get a bad pin that breaks in just a few minutes of light use.

I have a friend who bought an AI this year and is an ex-windsurfer. The first few times out, he treated his AI like a windsurfer and I kept warning him he would break a pin. I've broken 2 gray pins keeping up with him, but he didn't break one! Not fair!

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2007, 2009 & 2010 Hobie AIs and a 2010 TI

KB, how did you change those 2 broken pins--on water? Did another person assist (do the change)?

Keith

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I sail: S FL, Key Largo, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein