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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:33 am 
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Location: Jupiter, Florida
Wow...wish I could join you but I suffer from hypothermia in temperature below 75 degrees. It is a disease I got from living in south Florida for the last 20 years. I would repost you story in the sailing/ adventure section. Sounds like an incredible adventure!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Quote:
Hi Steve.

Those waves on your return looked intimidating. Very glad to hear that you guys were ok.

Very impressed how it so easy it is going to be to fix the boat and go sailing again. Two brand new akas and you'll be on the water terrorizing the fish again.

Your post and everyone's feedback to this thread have been very valuable. I too wish to be better prepared for challenging beach landings.

Quote:
#3: If you are in the ocean and you see a thunderstorm within a 100 miles of you, be afraid because you cannot run.


In the S Fl summer, every day there is a storm within 10 miles of us! We all work so hard during the week, we can't stay home and wait for the storms to pass. We gotta go sailing.

There is a solution to this challenge.

Many of us have smart phones such as the iPhones, Android, and Microsoft Mobile. They all have web browsers. I have a Microsoft Mobile PDA phone with the Opera web browser. My wife has an iPhone with a free radar app. We both are able to download and view South Florida radar with animation. With these tools, we actively monitor and predict the movements of most of the bigger storms/cells. When we go sailing, we protect the phones with clear waterproof bags and check them every 30-60 minutes while we're sailing. If it ain't moving towards us, we keep sailing.

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#5. Always beach the TI with the AMAs out.


It can be very challenging to keep the stern or bow perfectly aligned into all the incoming waves. Therefore, we do need to develop a best practice for how to handle this situation.

You suggest to always beach the TI with the AMAs out. I agree with you that the port AMA was all that prevented the TI from flipping over. But what is wrong with the boat rolling over on its side?

I prefer to fold and bungee the amas in when landing. This way, if the boat were to take a bad wave on its beam, it will simple roll over to its side unscathed.


Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way. I rolled my AI in surf with the amas bungeed closed. I was having trouble seating the drive on a very calm day when a 'rogue' 18" or so wave caught me by surprise. Turned the boat parallel to the beach and rolled it on its side until the mast hit. Then theboat stopped, but the wave washed over the high gunwale and took the ama with it. The ama and akas were fine, but it twisted and bent both both hull mounted aka bars. Ripped the hinge completely off the fore bar. All this from essentially a wavelet. Water is powerful stuff. I'm pretty sure that if the amas had been out, the whole boat would have washed ashore unharmed. I had to duck under the boat to save being crushed under it, but given the direction i know the hull was facing when it rolled, it had to be just water pressure over the top, not the weight of the boat, twisting everything. It was an expensive way to get some extra mast bearings and cleats. All on the second day i owned it.

Blair


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
Blair, I guess you were trying to launch your AI rather than beach it. That presents a whole different set of problems. It's much easier to stay at right angles to the waves when heading into them, but you really need to be moving forward as quickly as possible. I think you need to launch into waves with the Mirage drive already in and the amas out and to start pedalling like crazy as soon as you have enough clearance. I suspect you would have had far less damage if the mast had not been stepped, as that was what stopped your boat moving with the wave. Once the mast dug in the boat had to resist the full force of the wave.
Yes, I'm using 20/20 hindsight here :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
In watching the video again, the incident doesn’t look like too big a drama. In slow-mo however it is a completely different story. It really does show how quickly a situation can change when water is involved. I was down at Budgewoi Beach NSW at the weekend with wife, bottle of wine, blue vein cheese, ½ kg king prawns and a vienna loaf. Life’s hard. Anyway, I digress, I was thinking about the video as I looked out at the ocean thinking to myself how difficult it would be to launch and land under the conditions on the day. It’s winter here and the shore line is very steep in places and the waves were dumping right at the shore line, which was pretty close to what it was doing in your video clip. When landing, I’m sure that the only way to keep safe and to keep the boat straight is to tether yourself behind letting the boat pull you in like was mentioned previously. It may mean getting a bit more wet but I can't remember ever having a dry landing anyway ? You can’t get that much wetter than wet.

Good to know your both OK though snjsanders. Could easily have been a lot worse. Believe it or not, some medical procedures cost more than Hobie parts.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:22 pm 
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This might not be the smartest way to beach the TI in waves, but when I go out in 2-4' waves I come back in a little different. Same concept as the dragging anchor idea. I use a water ski handle that I have hooked to the stern and we both peddle like crazy and I watch for a wave to get close. When the wave gets close I jump out the back and hold on to the ski handle to keep the boat perpendicular to the breakers. The front person continues to peddle and drag me behind. When we get close enough in I let go of the handle, run around and grab the front handle and pull her in. I broke the AKAs very similar to the video, and since I deployed the "human drift sock" method the boat has not turned sideways on me yet. Take into consideration that I am on sandy beaches and 4' waves is the max I am willing to go out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Location: Jupiter, Florida
The SEF-TIC met today to think about the best way to recover a TI in adverse conditions. Unfortunately, the water was perfect for doing some boating and snorkeling. My daughter and I took my boat out configured with a single AMA and I was pleasantly surprised at how stable it was. Sun-e-sailor went with Mkrawat on his boat due to a previous mast failure landing his boat in the shop for repairs (see posts in help/repair section). The snorkeling was incredible, complete with 3-4 sharks and 100's of snooks. Here is a short clip:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZXxFOOU0M&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]

As far as the subject at hand, Mark had an incredible setup for quickly deploying a Guardian G-5 anchor on a TI. I will try and get him to post an explanation of his setup. We all agreed the G-5 was the anchor to have for a sandy bottom. We also agreed that unless you have to recover your boat to the beach it is safer to anchor your boat out of the surf until the storm conditions pass. We were split on whether it was better to moor you boat with the AMA's extended or retracted. I was a fan of having them out, but there was discussion of the TI anchoring better with them retracted. We plan on practicing an anchored, beach recovery when the weather in South Florida will cooperate and provide us with more than 1-2 foot seas. Just another sh_tty day in paradise.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Hiyas Steve
Hope you had a killer weekend (not in the proverbial sense, of course...). I did and learned I want little to do with solar panel(s) on my tramp(s)...

Here's an idea that may sound wacky, but why the heck not (considering we've all 'Ueber' thought this thread to death, except perhaps this one....hehehe:

"SINNA, if thine Mast, Amas and Akas offend thee? - Pluck them Out!

Seriously,

Firstly if you ditch your mast, you lower your center of grav. making the amas dig in less.

Secondly: If you disconnect your akas by balancing in irons to reduce stress on the crossbar joints, just yank them out and let them float to shore.

You now have a narrow flat bottomed mid sectioned beamy missile with a 2 person turbo pedaled powered craft to crest the wave and balance on it. This minimal config should allow you as the helms person to maintain control with the rudder and possibly prevent a broach.

As all your non-essential stuff floats, it will wind up on shore unless of course you are running over reefs or an outgoing tide......

Next time I get a 3 foot plus surf here, I'll test it out in my AI. Why?

Cause I can :lol:

(wow, that should be good for a few hundred more posts, hehehe)

Surfs Up!

Take care Steve
(I hope your incurable case of Hypothermia can be cured someday as you check out the place called the 3rd most amazing place on this Planet for cruising:
1) Tahiti, 2) The Carib, and 3) The West Coast of BC, Canada.)

Fred

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Last edited by Trinomite on Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Steve
Amazing footage of the fishies unda da sea.

(Hmmmm, you sure this wasn't footage from the front lobby of:

http://www.silvertoncasino.com/

Just Kidding. (OK, After watching that incredible footage I just got tested for permanent Hypothermia and proven terminal, [gladly]).

Fred

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:46 pm 
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To the OP, as a sailor and not a kayaker, I always say if you don't break something on each trip out, you're doing something wrong...I've dropped my mast overboard, breaking a stanchion, had sunglasses flipped into the drink by a flailing sheet, dropped my car keys into the lake...always something fun! Hurricvane Gustav threw a tree across my Com-Pac 19 and flattened it, so I'm gonna get a TI to replace it.

How much did those AKAs cost? Was there any other damage resulting from them being bent over?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:36 pm 
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VTKuhnDawg wrote:
This might not be the smartest way to beach the TI in waves, but when I go out in 2-4' waves I come back in a little different. Same concept as the dragging anchor idea. I use a water ski handle that I have hooked to the stern and we both peddle like crazy and I watch for a wave to get close. When the wave gets close I jump out the back and hold on to the ski handle to keep the boat perpendicular to the breakers. The front person continues to peddle and drag me behind. When we get close enough in I let go of the handle, run around and grab the front handle and pull her in. I broke the AKAs very similar to the video, and since I deployed the "human drift sock" method the boat has not turned sideways on me yet. Take into consideration that I am on sandy beaches and 4' waves is the max I am willing to go out.


Great suggestion. Several sailors here in the islands have sworn by this technique.

I keep a 10' surfleash wrapped to the rear Aka Xbar, and you just reminded me how simple and effective this could be to bring the AI in through rough surf.

Think I'll put my rods and treblehooks away next time too. :shock:

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Location: Jupiter, Florida
Madwand wrote:
To the OP, as a sailor and not a kayaker, I always say if you don't break something on each trip out, you're doing something wrong...I've dropped my mast overboard, breaking a stanchion, had sunglasses flipped into the drink by a flailing sheet, dropped my car keys into the lake...always something fun! Hurricvane Gustav threw a tree across my Com-Pac 19 and flattened it, so I'm gonna get a TI to replace it.

How much did those AKAs cost? Was there any other damage resulting from them being bent over?


I glad it is not just me. The port front and back AKA's were $190

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:51 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
VTKuhnDawg wrote:
This might not be the smartest way to beach the TI in waves, but when I go out in 2-4' waves I come back in a little different. Same concept as the dragging anchor idea. I use a water ski handle that I have hooked to the stern and we both peddle like crazy and I watch for a wave to get close. When the wave gets close I jump out the back and hold on to the ski handle to keep the boat perpendicular to the breakers. The front person continues to peddle and drag me behind. When we get close enough in I let go of the handle, run around and grab the front handle and pull her in. I broke the AKAs very similar to the video, and since I deployed the "human drift sock" method the boat has not turned sideways on me yet. Take into consideration that I am on sandy beaches and 4' waves is the max I am willing to go out.


Great suggestion. Several sailors here in the islands have sworn by this technique.

I keep a 10' surfleash wrapped to the rear Aka Xbar, and you just reminded me how
simple and effective this could be to bring the AI in through rough surf.

Think I'll put my rods and treblehooks away next time too. :shock:

Thanks.

Image



I really like this idea as well. I have just installed a new anchoring system on the boat that I will post picture of later. I would like to try using this system to try a new way to recover the TI in rough water. It involves deploying a sea anchor off the bow and using a line tied to the stern. My thoughts are to back the boat in with the help of the sea anchored/paddle and when close enough to the beach jump off the back and pull in the TI from the stern. The key is as soon as the TI touches the beach you need to be in a position to pull the boat in before it has a chance to go sideways. A soon as I try it I post the video with results. Hopefully it won't cost me another $190.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:04 pm 
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snjsanders wrote:
I glad it is not just me. The port front and back AKA's were $190


That's not too bad if it were for both. One of them fancy ignition keys can cost that much. And you must realize that if it hadn't cost you anything, you probably wouldn't have learned anything!


Last edited by Madwand on Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Madwand wrote:
snjsanders wrote:
I glad it is not just me. The port front and back AKA's were $190


That's not too bad if it were for both. One of them fancy ignition keys can cost that much. And you must realize that if it hadn't cost you anything, you probably wouldn't have learned anything!


That sounds right. Can we assume this does not include the brace assembly?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:53 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Madwand wrote:
snjsanders wrote:
I glad it is not just me. The port front and back AKA's were $190


That's not too bad if it were for both. One of them fancy ignition keys can cost that much. And you must realize that if it hadn't cost you anything, you probably wouldn't have learned anything!


That sounds right. Can we assume this does not include the brace assembly?


If by the brace assembly you are referring to the crossbars, then no. The front and back AKA's I got are the full arms that snap into the crossbars.

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