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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:27 pm
Posts: 5
I am thinking of purchasing a used ai but wonder whether new rudder system will work with it. Had the 2011 i12 and had many problems with twist and stow. ai considering has twist and stow but need to know whether can replace with new rudder. Please let me know.

As it does note per answer below, would I likely experience similar difficulties with the twist and stow on the AI as I did with the inflatable 12? Even on a small inland lake, seemed to easily lose steerage and definitely in trouble on Lake Michigan?

windlass11


Last edited by windlass11 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:57 pm
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Location: Western Australia
No :(

Only fits 2011 models

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Hobie Tandem Island (Yellow Papaya)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:43 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
Correct. The larger rudder system does not fit the transom of older AI's. We changed the structure of the transom to handle the loads of a bigger rudder for 2011.

The only "problem" people seem to have with the Twist and Stow rudder is locking it down. 100% you need to use the down line cleated with tension on the line holding the rudder down. That is how it designed to work. Many people neglect or just don't know about the cleat in the system. If you do not cleat it... it will push back and start to twist / rotate which will make the boat turn left.

The AI has worked very well with the Twist and Stow rudder up till 2011. Only when we changed it to the 1st generation TI rudder did we start having problems, so we changed the system again. These boats sail with such speed that the larger TI rudder was forced aft and was hard to lock down... the new system is much better with the big rudder blade and it stays down.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:37 pm
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Hey Windlass
Sorry to hear about your experience with your i series Kayak.
(I own a 10 year old Innova 'Sunny' that has never let us down.)

I have a Dune (Ivory) 2011 AI. My dealer made sure I got the larger rudder.

I'm still using my old 'Twist and Stow' rudder that the boat came with.

Why, as Matt Miller said, if you know how to run the rigging method on the 'old rudder' you hopefully will not need to upgrade. (I'm also slightly conservative when it comes to switching out gear...("Don't fix it unless it is really broken")

Yes, a few times I lost partial control, but a lot had to do with lack of tension on the cockpit mounted rudder downhaul lock in 15-20 knot winds. Remember, this is a boat that loves balance:

The rudder Uphaul line/downhaul line lock use a bungy to keep you from snapping the rudder pin if you hit hard on solid ground.

My solution with the present Twist and Stow Rudder is to take all the stretch out of the bungy by pulling as hard as I can before locking down the rudder downhaul in the camcleat provided. (remember also not to use the same area every time of the camlock teeth so they stay sharp to hold the thin lines used on the downhaul rudder system. This also demands a certain 'flight plan' as you get close to shore.

1) reef the main partially (slow down) if the wind is onshore
2) read the water under your keel (if you can see bottom, time to pull up the daggerboard, if you haven't already...)
3) get your rudder stowed.
4) Put your Mirage Drive into 'neutral' and lock it down with the bungy so the blades are tucked close to the hull)
5) Furl your sail completely and wait until your speed is 'Dead Slow'.
6) jump out and stabilize your craft (whatever it takes, as long as you will be safe doing so)

Every sailing vessel has their own steering characteristics. Remember you are using a simple little arm to control the steering.

Years ago I actually snapped a laminated Oak Rudder on a Catalina 27'. Yup it did have a bit of rot due to a few places where the varnish got chipped off, yet the weather helm was so severe that a 5 foot tiller snapped off at the fitting. (I pushed the boat too hard by over tensioning the Gennaker, Jib and Main)

Hopefully you will never have to try to steer your vessel into a very busy channel hanging onto the stump of a tiller that should never have broken. (Thank Neptune for Outboard motors with their own tiller) :wink:

Another thought, by 'choking' a sail (over tensioning the main sheet) will cause more weather helm. Consider letting out your sail a bit and see if that takes the strain off your rudder control?

Be well
Trinomite

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:27 pm
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Thanks for the info. Seems like the newer hull with the newer rudder is the best way to go.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:49 am
Posts: 3
I have an older model(I bought used three years ago) and have trouble with the threaded screw that prevents the rubber from flipping up. I've also broken numerous hinge pins in the shallow water here in NC. Can I drill though all of the components and bolt the three pieces together using a nylon bolt/nut?
I would also like to find a solution for the spray that overwhelms me when going upwind in 15-20 mph wind(reefed), and anything more than 12" waves.


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