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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Posts: 54
Location: Newark DE & Miramar FL
There shouldn't be any reason to need additional purchase on the furler line. If it is difficult to pull in, simply release more mainsheet so the sail luffs. What you end up with when the Hobie's sail is wrapped around the mast is not a particularly snug package -- certainly less so than when I furl the jib on my MacGregor 26 arounds its headstay, and the furling line on the MacGregor is smaller in diameter, so is more difficult to pull in. There should be hardly any effort required to furl the sail on the Hobie.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
Joker wrote:
How do we rig an easier purchase for the furling line, such as 2 to 1? Joker


Hi Joker,

it's almost impossible to rig the furling line for 2:1. There is just not enough length to accommodate the extra line you would have to gain the mechanical advantage. 2:1 will double the amount of line necessary.

I used some cheek blocks to improve the direction of pull, reduce friction loses when furling, and i actually moved the line to the rear seat.

See my post:
kayakman7 wrote:
My front seater isn't quite strong enough to furl in heavy weather, so I added three cheek blocks, a new harken cam cleat, and a longer furling line. I also replaced the sheet with a higher quality line and found it runs much smoother, which was a problem since I switched to 3:1.
See pics...

Image

Image

Cheers,

J



adding just the "front and center" cheek block will make furling easier because you are pulling the line directly, not wearing onthe eyelet guide mounted on the cam cleat. however, be sure to locate the cheek block to optimize the direction of pull for you use.

cheers,

j

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:18 am 
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What size line did you use and what do you use for securing the cheek blocks into the plastic? Did you use a backing plate? Thank you. Joker


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
bluehen wrote:
There shouldn't be any reason to need additional purchase on the furler line. If it is difficult to pull in, simply release more mainsheet so the sail luffs. What you end up with when the Hobie's sail is wrapped around the mast is not a particularly snug package -- certainly less so than when I furl the jib on my MacGregor 26 arounds its headstay, and the furling line on the MacGregor is smaller in diameter, so is more difficult to pull in. There should be hardly any effort required to furl the sail on the Hobie.


No offense meant Bluehen, but there are weather conditions and points of sail that releasing the sheet does very little to improve the ease of furling. I consider myself a strong individual and I've been out in in some very tough weather and it has been flat out impossible to furl without coming into the wind. This is also a time when it is extremely dangerous to have the sheet whipping around your head, even that tiny little block hurts like a mother #*@!^$ when it hits your head.

No doubt easing the sheet is necessary and helpful advice but...
never say never.

Joker wrote:
What size line did you use and what do you use for securing the cheek blocks into the plastic? Did you use a backing plate? Thank you. Joker


Hi Joker,

I used 6mm Marlow line I found:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marlow-Spectra-Dyneema-SK75-Halyard-Line-6mm-1-4-/270881296305?hash=item3f11c88fb1&item=270881296305&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr
and
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marlow-Spectra-Dyneema-SK75-Halyard-Line-6mm-1-4-/270881350104?hash=item3f11c961d8&item=270881350104&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr
on Ebay

The cheek blocks are though bolted with fender washers on the back side. The stress on the cheek blocks is almost entirely a shear force, so they could probably even be screwed in place. The eyelets visible in the first photo (that have a small block (pulley) and hook attached) have much larger washer since they are under tension when in use. I attach my PA Jib with them.

I bought 60' for the sheet and about 25' for the furling line (which is slightly to much)

cheers,

J

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:30 am
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Location: Newark DE & Miramar FL
Hi kayakman7, no offense taken. You're right, I should avoid speaking in absolutes. No doubt there are conditions where heading up would be required to reduce pressure on the Hobie's mast sufficiently to get it to spin.

I like your approach to rear-seat furling and I certainly agree that replacing the stock lines will result in improved sail handling. I'm a fan of Harken blocks and cleats, but you do have to run quality line through them to get their full benefit.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Thank you for the information. Is the last cheek block just screwed in with SS wood screws?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
bluehen wrote:
Hi kayakman7, no offense taken. You're right, I should avoid speaking in absolutes. No doubt there are conditions where heading up would be required to reduce pressure on the Hobie's mast sufficiently to get it to spin.

I like your approach to rear-seat furling and I certainly agree that replacing the stock lines will result in improved sail handling. I'm a fan of Harken blocks and cleats, but you do have to run quality line through them to get their full benefit.

Hi Bluehen,
no, stock line will work. since i needed a longer furling line, i replaced it. the sheet was showing quite a bit a wear for the forty hours it had been used and i replaced that also. i'm glad i did.

Joker wrote:
Thank you for the information. Is the last cheek block just screwed in with SS wood screws?

Hi Joker,
No, i though bolted it. while screws would probably work in most applications where i have made modifications, it seems prudent to prepare for the worst possible conditions. i ALWAYS though bolt.

j

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 8:35 pm
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Hi guy's. I'm fairly new to hobie sailing as I just aquired 2 adventure islands and have sailed about 10 times. I learnt a valuable lesson the other day whilst sailing in pretty strong winds just off Seacliff beach in Adelaide (South Australia.) I'd always listened to the hype about how adventure islands couldn't capsize which in part is true under most normal conditions.
The lesson for me that day was to always expect the unexpected. I was out approximately 200 metres from the beach when I unfurled the sail, this quickly caught a strong gust and I took off. As I gained speed I realised that my ama was lifting out of the water a little bit higher than normal and it just kept lifting, this of course happened very fast then I realised for some reason it was not going to stop and the kayak was about to capsize. The ama on my right slammed into the side of the kayak and it was then that I new what had caused it. I had obviously, somehow put pressure on the spring loaded ama locking bar and it popped out of poition.
Now when they tell you that it is easy to right an adventure island they didn't account for the tip of the sail lodging it self into a rocky outcrop about 15 & a half feet below the surface which happened in my case. There was no way on this earth that I could release it by myself, fortunately I was out with a couple of friends out testing there new tandem. Three of us were able to do what was needed. So remember It's not always going to be plain sailing, you are in a reletively dangerous environment. It took us about 1/2 hour from capsizing till we got back to the beach and when we got there we noticed the shark spotting plane :shock: circling over the spot that we had been and my nephew said he saw a shark swim under his AI close by. Apart from that it was a great day (no damage and only lost a dagger board.) Food for thought!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
Hobie-one-canoobie wrote:
Hi guy's. I'm fairly new to hobie sailing as I just aquired 2 adventure islands and have sailed about 10 times. I learnt a valuable lesson the other day whilst sailing in pretty strong winds just off Seacliff beach in Adelaide (South Australia.) I'd always listened to the hype about how adventure islands couldn't capsize which in part is true under most normal conditions.
The lesson for me that day was to always expect the unexpected. I was out approximately 200 metres from the beach when I unfurled the sail, this quickly caught a strong gust and I took off. As I gained speed I realised that my ama was lifting out of the water a little bit higher than normal and it just kept lifting, this of course happened very fast then I realised for some reason it was not going to stop and the kayak was about to capsize. The ama on my right slammed into the side of the kayak and it was then that I new what had caused it. I had obviously, somehow put pressure on the spring loaded ama locking bar and it popped out of poition.
Now when they tell you that it is easy to right an adventure island they didn't account for the tip of the sail lodging it self into a rocky outcrop about 15 & a half feet below the surface which happened in my case. There was no way on this earth that I could release it by myself, fortunately I was out with a couple of friends out testing there new tandem. Three of us were able to do what was needed. So remember It's not always going to be plain sailing, you are in a reletively dangerous environment. It took us about 1/2 hour from capsizing till we got back to the beach and when we got there we noticed the shark spotting plane :shock: circling over the spot that we had been and my nephew said he saw a shark swim under his AI close by. Apart from that it was a great day (no damage and only lost a dagger board.) Food for thought!!!


Hi Hobie-one-canoobie (good name). Your experience of capsizing is not unique and we all should prepare for the unexpected. I have had one unpleasant experience like yours which proved to me nothing is absolutely bullet-proof including Islands. They certainly give the impression of being indestructible when fair ripping downwind with the bow driving into the wave ahead on a windy day, and they almost are. Being trapped along the centreline of the kayak without being able to get your weight outboard quickly to negate an extreme gust is without doubt a limitation though my experience is that they are extremely stable craft. The trick here is to only use as much sail area as needed without allowing the leeward amar to submerge which will result in keeping everything stable as well as driving the craft along as fast as it can go in the circumstances...Pirate

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:44 am 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:24 am
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i have capsized and punctured an ama... be careful when practicing capsizes or you'll be sailing home with a tonne of water in a punctured ama which hang off two very small bungies, this in turn will may place too much load on the sail assembly and tear the self furling bearing assembly off the front aka.

in my opinion my TI bearing assembly tore out under similar load stress...

the basics of dealing with capsize are already posted here on the forum and on youtube an old video on righting an adventure island is shown:

http://yakass.net/videos/josh-yakass-ho ... -fish-ep-5

its at about 5:58


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
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Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I used to sail a NACRA 18 (footer) catamaran. Both my crew and I were quite good on recovering from a broach. But just off the Coast Guard station near Bayfield, Wisconsin, we broached and could not get it to come back up. Turns out that the top of the mast had jammed into some rocks. The CG was kind enough to send out a small boat and helped us pull free.
I have practiced a couple of times broaching on both my AI and TIs. It always seemed to be quite easy to bring them back up. But I always did it in deep water. Now I am not sure how to practice, if the water is just deep enough to jam the top of the mast.


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