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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Location: Ballina NSW
:wink: Hello to all other Hobie owners, I am wondering how many have thought about the by product and rejects from rota moulding.
I have had a look at the Pacific garbage vortex on the net and I am wondering if our very much loved Hobies contribute to the problem. I know on our end the hulls arrive wrapped in bubble plastic, as far as I know this stuff is not recycled and is sent to landfill.
Are Hobie able to recycle the plastic used in rota moulding and is there another way to wrap for transport,something that may be more suitable for todays way of life and enviromental concerns, could Hobie use cardboard, even better recycled cardboard!!
Can Hobie break it down for us and themselves to see where it may be improved, Production, transportation, use and maintainence and disposal????
:?:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Actually, recycling paper is worse for the environment than tossing it.

The harsh chemicals required to dissolve the inks and dyes, and then break down paper to pulp are more detrimental to the environment than the paper itself. Recycling paper to make pulp actually consumes more fossil fuels than making new pulp, because the paper, has to be broken down, additives from it previous live dissolved, extracted and disposed of.. etc etc.

Actually, recycling in general, with the exception of aluminum, is a wash in terms of environmental impact. The energy and processing required to recycle (extra bins, vehicles, equipment, machinery, facilities.. etc etc) pretty much makes recycling just as harmful to the environment as disposable when You look at the big picture.

I'm an avid outdoors-man, I hate littering, Ive been a nature nut since I was eight years old. But if you can get past the feel good self righteousness of recycling and actually look at the processes, it doesn't take much research to see that its not that great. Of course there is always the Prius driver look down your nose at everyone else ego boost that comes from it, which I would guess is the biggest driver of what is generally a misguided venture.

EDIT: http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jul-au ... nvironment

This is a pretty good study by discover magazine about plastic recycling.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Location: Calga NSW, Australia
I'm sure I have read somewhere (?Hobie Catalogue) that Hobie does not want its boats to become landfill and offers a service of accepting any unwanted Hobies. I always assumed they could re-use the high density polyethylene to make new boats.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Yes well that article is an eye opener! but it only takes two thirds of the energy to recycle plastic than it does to make it new from raw material.
As for the processes and chemicals used to recycle paper I maybe misled but paper recycling is big bussiness and it must be profitable not saying there aren't chemicals used in this process but how does it compare to the bleaching of new timber pulp.
So alot of the plastic has to go to landfill, we need to reduce the dependance we have on plastic and I was just hoping I might stir the thinkers and doers at Hobie because I have unwrapped my new hull replaced under warranty and it was obvious that it could have been wrapped in brown cardboard and arrived in the same condition and I would like to know what happened to the cracked hull I left behind.
I must say it is a hard one, but if it goes to landfill it needs to stay there and not end up in waterways.
Seven billion people on the planet, I love to sail my TI. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:54 pm 
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problem is when they calculate the energy needed to recycle they just look at the process itself, they don't take into account building facilities, storage, and all the other logistic parts of recycling.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:05 pm 
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You are right, the only way around it is to stop using plastic, Yeh right!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:00 am 
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Sorry Romenfree, but you seem to be misunderstanding.. Wingnutt is talking about recycling paper and you transpose his words to mean plastic.

Hobie clearly state that they don't want any of their kayaks going to landfill
Have a look in your Mirage manual
"Is my boat recyclable?
Hobie will recycle your boat when you are done with it. To
recycle a Hobie Kayak, it must be cut up so it fits in a box with
the following dimensions (for UPS): may not exceed 130”
length plus girth, and 108” in height. Ship the boat to:
Hobie Cat Company
4925 Oceanside Blvd.
Oceanside, CA 92056
It is our hope that no Hobie Kayak will ever end up in
a landfill!"


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:13 am 
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Location: Ballina NSW
That is really good to know, thank you for the clarification, I am curious as to how many they have recycled.
Do you think wrapping the hulls in cardboard instead of the heavy duty bubble would be an option. I am trying to be an optimist and believe that every little bit will help. All companies big and small need to change the way things are packaged.
Now that I have read an article that explains recycling in a true light, I will change the way my whole family approaches this practice
Love sail my TI, love the planet we live on!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:03 am 
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Romenfree
Your aims are laudible, but I would suggest that making cardboard waterproof might not be environmentally efficient. I am assuming you have already eschewed plastic shopping bags, air conditioning, car trips shorter than 5km, processed foods, detergents, open fires, motor mowers etc etc, if the bubble wrap on a one-time kayak purchase is a high priority.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Not to offend :wink: but you sound like a politiction, instead of moving forward on an issue you have listed numerous fantastic points under mining the original arguement.
If Hobie kayaks are transported on open trucks exposed to the elements I suppose there is no real solutiuon, but I am pretty sure these things are safely under lock and key and very rarely exposed. Even if they do get a little wet, essentially they are designed to do so and would not be damaged. What about thin wrap over cardboard?
I am really proud of the fact that my sport requires no ongoing fossil fuel, there are no major wearing parts that need to be replaced and and maintainence consists of a hose down and dry. Just hoping to shake the tree and question this practice, if Hobie are able to change the way they package the would not only be world leaders in their field but one step closer to being leaders in sustainable practices.
Yes there are alot of seperate issues that will probably never be dealt with but if we as the end consumer don't question, how is anything ever going to change?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Hobie already has a program to recycle the kayak.
The packing materials is your concern as the end consumer. You can recycle them if you have the facilities.
As a person who moves often I am glad to have and saved the bubble wrap.
Paper and cardboard offers little protection when faced with movers that don't care for your property.
Just consider that Hobie is in one of, if not the most environmentally concerned states, maybe second only to Hawaii.
With their decades long involvement with the surfing community, the kayak division cannot act like and isn't an environmental monster. Their current customer base would not allow it.
Bubble wrap is more expensive than brown paper but increased risk of damaged product makes sense for the additional cost.
I am very happy that what I purchase is well protected.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:04 pm 
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I've seen a dealer where the new stock is stacked neatly in a secure yard and possibly exposed to rain until moved inside and set up for the customer. The bubble wrap makes good padding for roof racks too. :D

At the last Sydney Boat Show I went to they had a guy talking about plastic bags. He worked on a boat up on the Great Barrier Reef and was concerned about the amount of plastic being eaten by the sea life, turtles in particular.

It was interesting that he explained that even bio-degradable bags were bad for the environment. They either break down into polymers or very very small chunks of plastic which are the right size for many sea critters to eat. His recommendation is for compostable plastic. Apparently if you wrap vegetable matter in one of these bags, the bag will have rotted away into environmentally safe waste before the vegetable matter has. Unfortunately they are more expensive than other bags.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:15 pm 
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romenfree wrote:
Not to offend :wink: but you sound like a politician, instead of moving forward on an issue you have listed numerous fantastic points undermining the original argument. SNIP

My point is that you seem to be aiming at Hobie, a company which seems to me to be already going the extra yard to do the right thing, when there are so many other areas where the environment can be better looked after. As you point out yourself, a Hobie kayak and its use leaves a very small carbon footprint.. Have you done all you can with other items such as those I suggested? EG. Taking a kayak to the water with a giant SUV is an environmental oxymoron...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:58 pm 
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I was not having a go at Hobie, I was just raising the point that these things use alot of plastic during transit. I know our local council can't recycle it so it ends up in landfill. Just wanted to see if there might be another option.
Sorry if I upset anyone. :oops:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Hello Romenfree,

Thank you for bringing up this important topic and do not feel like you have to apologize for anything! I appreciate your interest and concern as well as many others I'm sure. My thanks also go out to Wingnutt for his input and the link to the Discover article. I enjoyed reading it and have sent it out to friends and family.

I too have tried to recycle the white bubble wrap material for other uses as well. Packing/shipping material, doubled up and taped with duct tape as a make shift pad, and the latest was as extra insulation inside my Coleman Cooler. I wonder if someone who was clever with a sewing machine could'nt make up a square bag and stack several of these into it as a floating seat cushion like these http://www.savvyboater.com/store/p/3754 ... shion.aspx

It's about awareness and action. Thanks again!

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