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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:20 pm 
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I purchased a Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor in April of 2016 and mounted it to my 2015 Hobie Tandem Island. I’ve been extensively testing both the motor and the TI installation in actual use since early June. After over 75 hours of testing in a multitude of conditions, I finally feel I now have enough factual information for a comprehensive review.

When I initially tried to research the Torqeedo Ultralight 403 motor specifically with a Hobie Tandem Island, it was surprisingly difficult to find much good information anywhere online. There were a few decent references including several here, but nothing definitive or in enough detail. There is also as much disinformation about this motor and its capabilities as there is good information, much from people who don’t even own one. So I decided to take the time to write this review to hopefully provide others with some helpful information on this motor and its specific application on the Tandem Island.

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Disclaimer:
I’m an (almost) retired IBM Electrical, Electromechanical, and Software engineer with 40 years of experience and an avid boater for 32 years, so I have some qualifications for presenting this review. I do not have any affiliation with Hobie or Torqeedo and my only interest is to provide some useful information to anyone considering using the Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor with the Hobie Tandem Island. I assume, but make no claim, that this information is also mostly applicable to the Adventure Island as well. Everything presented here is in my opinion only and to the best of my knowledge, but I have strived to present accurate information.

Advantages:
After using my new TI for an entire season in 2015, I decided that it’s usefulness might be significantly enhanced with the addition of a motor, and that the cost would be justified. Actually, I underestimated its usefulness, and in retrospect I don’t know how I managed without one. A motorized TI offers many advantages including:

    Greatly Enhanced Range
    Without the motor, a typical day for me would cover about 10 miles. What limited this range was being conservative on how far I could sail out and still get back before dark. If I sailed downwind, I needed to account for the greater time it would take to return sailing upwind. If I sailed out far and then the winds died out, which was often the case, I need to account for the extra time and energy it would take to pedal back. If there was no decent wind at all, I would only pedal out as far as I felt I had enough time and energy left to pedal back. Now, with a motor, I can easily cover 20 miles or more and still be home for supper. If I sail downwind, I can use the motor to sail or cruise back upwind much faster. If the winds die down I can use the motor to get back easily and quickly from almost any distance. There’s a reason most modern sailboats have a motor, and the TI benefits equally as well.

    Better Maneuverability
    Turning an 18.5 foot boat in tight quarters was always a challenge. However, with the motor turning along with the existing rudder, I can now maneuver the TI much better in and around boat launches, docks, moorings, hazards, etc. This comes in very handy especially when quick maneuverability is essential like in strong wind conditions and in close proximity to other vessels, docks, and hazards. The motor also generates far more thrust and speed than pedaling alone so you have much better rudder control in conditions that would normally slow the boat such as running against winds, tides, and currents. As you all know, once you drop under 1.5 knots or so rudder control suffers greatly and you can lose control of the boat quickly in adverse conditions. The motor ensures a steady speed and an excellent rudder at all times, especially when you need it most.

    Increased Versatility
    Adding a motor gives you a whole new option to power the TI. You can use it alone or in conjunction with the sail and/or pedals. As you’ve probably experienced, adding a slight amount of thrust can make sailing in marginal conditions much better. With just a slight boost from the motor I can now sail in winds that were too weak to effectively move the boat on wind power alone. If you’re using the TI by yourself, using the motor while pedaling is like having an olympic athlete pedaling with you in the other seat. If there are two of you are pedaling and you add the motor, you can really move. If you’re too hot or tired to pedal and there’s no wind, or you want to go in a direction the wind won’t take you, then you can use the motor alone. You get the idea. More versatility is always great. You can make your TI a tri-powered boat.

    Increased Safety, Confidence, and Enjoyment
    I can now do things I would never do before like sail confidently downwind as far as I want without worrying about getting back to the boat launch upwind. It used to take hours and hours to sail back upwind and sometimes I would underestimate the time and get back really late. Or if the wind conditions change when you’re far from your starting point. Many times the winds would change direction or intensity and I had to really struggle to sail and/or pedal back. All of that has changed now and I can now sail out with much more confidence knowing I have a motor to help me get back if necessary. Then there are times when an unexpected change of weather can create dangerous winds, waves, or currents. The motor provides a significant extra margin of safety in those critical conditions. The end result is greater confidence, safety, and enjoyment of the boat.

Choices:
My choices to motorize the TI included the Torqeedo 403, its cousin the Hobie Evolve, other electric marine motors such as trolling motors, and small gas powered outboards. I first decided against the gas outboards due to the weight, mounting and control issues, exhaust fumes, fuel odors, increased risk of fire, maintenance, and noise. I know many TI owners use them successfully, but this choice just wasn't for me. Additionally, the cost wasn’t that much different if I also had to purchase the extra hardware necessary to remotely operate the throttle and steering of a gas outboard motor from either seat as you can with the Torqeedo 403 (throttle and steering) and Hobie Evolve (throttle only). If you don’t include some type of a remote throttle for a gas outboard then you must somehow mount it near you to control it. This puts you in very close proximity to the noise, gas fumes, and exhaust. Ugh. I switched from power boats to a sailboat to smell the sweet sea breeze on the water and quietly glide over the waves, not to have a gasoline engine right next to my noggin. So I crossed the gas engines off my list. Again, this is just my opinion. If you have no objections to gas powered engines then they should stay on your list.

Other electric marine motors did not have the high tech advantages of the Torqeedo 403 and the Hobie Evolve, especially the high-performance, ultra lightweight lithium battery or the thrust. So I quickly eliminated them as well. The Torqeedo 403 and Evolve are not mere trolling motors, they were specifically designed to power kayaks. There is currently no electric marine motor manufacturer worldwide that can match Torqeedo’s technology. They design and manufacture both marine electric motors up to 160 equivalent horsepower and ultra high-tech lithium batteries to replace the ancient, heavy, lower powered lead acid batteries that most other marine electric motors use.

This now narrowed the choice between the Torqeedo 403 and the Hobie Evolve. Both of these motors are manufactured by the same German company and are essentially the same in many ways. They share the same remote controller, the same battery, the same motor, etc. However the key difference, at least for the TI, is the mounting. The Evolve mounts in either Mirage Drive slot. There is a rudder mount option included, but not for the TI’s specific rudder. I did not want to give up either Mirage Drive slot, I still want to be able to pedal, and so did my passengers when I take them. Additionally, the Torqeedo 403 can tilt. This was huge for me, I needed a way to quickly tilt the motor out of harm’s way in the shallow, rocky areas I often frequent. With the Evolve you would have to quickly yank the motor out of the slot in shallow areas. This is not, in my opinion, a good design choice. Also you lose the maneuvering advantages of a motor that turns with the rudder. Finally, the Torqeedo 403 is significantly less expensive than the Evolve even though they share most of the same components. I was able to purchase the 403 from Defender Marine new for $1,490 (USD). The Evolve is $2,149 USD, $659 more. That’s more than enough savings to buy a spare battery. A hint on purchasing the 403, be sure to put the motor in the shopping cart to see its actual price and not the MSRP. Hobie on the other hand appears to almost never allow its dealers to sell or advertise, online at least, for less than MSRP.

So for all of these reasons I decided to power my TI with the Torqeedo 403 Ultralight.

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Mounting:
    Motor:
    Again, there wasn’t much information for me to start with. Torqeedo’s dealers insisted it could be conventionally mounted successfully to the TI so I wasn’t too concerned, however there were the critical issues of whether or not the motor would interfere with the TI rudder’s up/down tilt access or its normal operational right/left swing access. As it turned out, this can be easily avoided by simply mounting the motor slightly to the side and in back of the rudder. The rudder is then able to swing fully right to left as normal, and to tilt up and down as normal either half-way up in any situation (which is good enough), or fully up if rotated slightly away from the motor. In either case it is fully out of the way of hazards. The TI's rudder operates as normal with the 403 motor either tilted up or down, and you can operate the TI as normal in either motor position.

    It was very easy to mount the 403 to the TI. It took less than an hour for the main part. All that was necessary was to drill four holes to mount the gimbal ball to the back of the TI. The included backing plate, stainless bolts, and the high quality metal gimbal mount made for a very sturdy installation as shown in the photos below. Here is the manual if you wish to see the mounting details: http://media.torqeedo.com/downloads/manuals/torqeedo-ultralight-403-manual-DE-EN.pdf

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    Tilt Controls:
    Next you can optionally mount the tilting mechanism. Torqeedo includes two simple plastic clamp blocks to secure the up and down tilting lines, but I thought this was a bit too crude.

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    It would have worked, but there is always a better way. So after a quick trip to my local West Marine store I installed a couple of Harken MicroCam cleats and blocks to use the same method in which Hobie cleats their lines. I even used the same Hobie Up and Down handles as used by the rudder, which I found online at Austin Kayak. This all made for a much neater and better operating tilt mechanism. I chose to control it from the rear seat, which I prefer, but it could also be mounted for the front seat. There are two lines, one to tilt the motor up, which is a directly mounted to the top of the motor’s tilting plate with a stainless clip for easy removal, and the other is to tilt the motor down. This line also prevents the motor from thrusting upward if you put it into reverse. Torqeedo instructs you to use a straight line to the motor, but if you do then you will prevent it from kicking up if it hits an object while in operation. So instead I tied it to a length of shock cord. This prevents the motor from thrusting upward while in reverse, but also allows the motor to kick up if it strikes an object in the water to prevent damage when going forward.

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    Rudder Control:
    The 403 motor offers the option of either a fixed point straight back or moving with the TI rudder. Either will work. I was intrigued with the motor moving with the rudder which offers both thrust maneuvering and a way to steer the boat if the rudder ever breaks while on the water, so I chose the latter. Torqeedo’s instructions say to fix a line to from the boat’s rudder to the 403’s steering arm.

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    This works, but it does not make for the best movement of the motor with the rudder because the distances and angles from the rudder to the motor are not equal on each side. It’s not critical that the motor move exactly with the rudder, but the perfectionist in me couldn’t live with that. So I tried some other methods of attaching the rudder to the 403. The method that seemed to work best was to tie a shock cord to the starboard side and a spring and turnbuckle to the port side. This combination allows the motor to turn almost exactly with the rudder as best as possible. The shock cord and spring allow the rudder to constantly pull on the motor tightly even though the movement is not linear laterally or rotationally from one side to the other. The elastic shock cord and spring continue to pull even after the rudder is fully stopped at either side. A simple length of inflexible line could not do that. The turnbuckle allows quick and easy field adjustments to precisely align the motor to the rudder. I expected to have to tweak this arrangement throughout the season to get it just right, but luckily it works incredibly well as is. The spring and shock cord also allow the motor to absorb any punishment from hard hitting waves and bounce right back into proper position, so that was an extra benefit.

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    Throttle Control:
    The electronic remote throttle was very easy to mount. I used the existing mounting kit that came with the 2015 TI for the thru hull wiring, but if you have an older TI, this kit can easily be ordered from any Hobie dealer or online. It had all the right sized grommets to fit the wire and hull plugs. The throttle wire goes to the lithium battery. I used a Ram Mount RAM-B-238 2.43" x 1.31" Diamond Base with 1" Ball which was easily mounted to the TI hull, along with a Ram Mount RAM-B-138U Mount. This very flexible mount allows the throttle control to be comfortably adjusted and controlled from either the front or rear seat. I chose the rear seat. The throttle control is listed as completely waterproof to IP67 specifications and specifically designed to get wet so no worries there. In actual operation it get splashed a bit and can survive underwater in the unlikely event of a capsize.

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    Battery:
    The battery simply is placed in the rear cargo area of the TI. I rearranged the existing shock cord to better hold the battery in place. Additionally I attached a couple of backup straps and cables to hold the battery down if the cords should ever fail while trailering or in the event of a capsize. The battery is expensive, you would not want to lose it. Fortunately it is waterproof and will float. The battery can be recharged on the TI or easily removed to charge indoors. The battery shown in the photos is a larger battery than the one that comes with the 403. More about that later.

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    Motor Cable:
    The motor cable simply attaches to the battery and does not need to be routed through the hull. I simply run it under the existing shock cord on the back of the TI and it works fine. It does not get in the way when tilting the motor.


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That’s it for the installation. Really couldn’t be much easier.

Operation:

    Transport:
    It should be noted that Torqeedo does not recommend that the 403 motor be trailered or otherwise transported over land while mounted. I did try this once and the many nasty road bumps encountered along the way did upset the mounting alignment which fortunately can be easily field re-adjusted. I imagine that the constant road bumping could also eventually break something. So now I simply remove the motor assembly where its shaft attaches to the gimbal mount and reattach it at the boat dock. This involves only one bolt and can be done quickly. The tilt and steering lines all quickly attach/detach with clips so that is also easy. Still it would have been nice to be able to trailer it mounted, one less thing to do at the dock. I may try to design a bracket that will properly brace it for trailering like some gas outboards use. Quick and easy removal of the motor does however prevent it from being stolen if you ever need to leave your TI unattended.

    Throttle and Controls:
    To operate the motor I simply turn on the control unit, tilt the motor down into position, hit the throttle and off it goes. The control unit takes about 10-30 seconds to find the gps satellites, but the motor can be run right away. Once the control unit is on you never have to shut it off for the rest of the day. There is a however slight pause before the motor starts, which some people complain about, but I don’t see it as much of an issue.

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    The throttle works as expected, push it forward to go forward, pull it back to go in reverse, and put it in neutral to stop. The motor speed control is smooth and linear, and it has infinite speeds between stop and full throttle in either direction, there is no notchiness as with some controls. You can chose any speed you want anytime you want. The throttle appears to be very well made with rugged components.

    The throttle displays, in real time, the battery’s current remaining charge in percent, the remaining range at the current speed in miles, nautical miles, kilometers, or hours, the current speed in mph, kph, or knots, and the current battery consumption in watts. These readings constantly change and are re-calculated instantly as you go faster or slower, as conditions change, and as the battery discharges. Quite remarkable and highly useful.

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    An onboard gps built into the battery is used for the speed and range calculations. This remarkably accurate information allows you to exactly tailor the use of the motor to your needs. You can go faster with less range, or slower with more range, and can change this at any time. So if I’m four miles from the launch and the display says I can get there at full throttle with two miles to spare, I can then gun it for the duration knowing I’ll get there with power to spare. There’s never any guesswork involved. I find this to be incredibly useful and I plan all my excursions using it. In the many times I’ve used it, it has never failed me. If anything it’s conservative. I can usually push it for about another mile or so after it says the battery is discharged. You can also recalibrate it for even more accuracy.

    Motor:
    The motor itself is very smooth while in operation. It holds a consistent thrust at any throttle position. However, speed will be always determined by water, boat, and wind conditions. With the TI, I was first able to reach a respectable maximum speed of 5.3 mph in calm conditions with a reliable maximum speed of around 4.7 mph in all but the worst conditions (heavy headwinds, waves, or currents). But when I tried to push it to go faster it would begin to cavitate since the prop is not that far into the water (the motor shaft ideally could be a few inches longer) and a round shaft was not the best choice as a water foil. As an experiment I recently mounted a Yakima WindJammer (designed as an air foil for car roof cargo bars) to the round motor shaft of the 403. This was cleverly suggested by someone from the Hobie Pro Angler forum. It fits almost perfectly but I had to rivet it closed because it's just a tiny bit too small.

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    This improved things dramatically. The cavitation all but disappeared and I was now able to get a top speed of well over 6 mph! For a tiny motor that, along with the battery weighs only 15 pounds, this is remarkable! I didn’t think adding a water foil would make such a difference, but it did. The only issue is that the Yakima WindJammer would not stay aligned after being hit by waves. I need to find a way to hold it in position without having to drill into the motor shaft (would void warranty). I’m thinking 3M Marine Fast Cure 3200 to fix it into position, but any better ideas would be appreciated. When I have this fixed I'll post about it here so stay tuned if you're interested.

    So this tiny, very lightweight motor and battery can reliably propel the huge and relatively heavy TI at respectable speeds. To get more speed you would need considerably more power. The progression is not linear. The Torqeedo 403 is certainly not going to power you around in your TI like a speed boat. It will get you where you want to go at 3 to 6 mph which is about equivalent to a larger, heavier, and noisier 2.5 hp gas outboard. Expect motor-only speeds of about 3 to 5 mph on average given all conditions involving wind, water, weight, boat design, and conservation of power. This should be plenty for most of us for its intend use as auxiliary power to the sail and pedals. If you really need to go faster than 6 mph without wind and/or pedal power, then you probably purchased the wrong boat, and you’re going to have to go through the trouble to rig and manage multiple small gas outboard motors on the TI to go faster. In theory I estimate two small gas motors may be able to propel the TI to about 12-14 mph maximum with both at wide open throttle, but this is an extreme option few will consider. Practically though, twin gas outboards would give you only about 3-5 more mph on average in normal use at reasonable fuel consumption and noise levels. If that’s what you need then go for it, but I feel that the Ultralight 403 will satisfy the majority of TI owners and is far, far more easy to manage than two gasoline engines which, along with the required extra mounts and rigging, would add about 90 pounds to the rear of your TI.

    Of course maximum speed is not what the 403 motor is all about and its real advantage for the TI is the ability to provide reliable auxiliary thrust whenever wind sailing is not possible or practicable, and pedal power is not enough for your purposes, or just to add some extra speed to both. The TI can be pedaled all day without a motor by anyone in decent physical condition, but not all of us are in decent physical condition, especially us older guys. Or if you’re like me you may simply be too lazy or hot sometimes and not feel like pedaling back the ten miles you sailed after the winds died out. Or perhaps you are willing to pedal but wished you could go a lot faster especially against headwinds, waves, and currents where sometimes pedal power alone is not enough. Or maybe you wish to sail better on days where the wind is light and variable and you need to keep up some steady momentum. This is where this motor shines. It’s like having a tireless pedal partner onboard to provide you with more thrust anytime, anywhere. No need to have to fire up an outboard, all you need to do is move the throttle forward. Virtually instant on or off with zero hassle. You can cruise all day with this motor at around 3.5 mph, it will last for hours and hours at this speed. If you pedal along with it, it will go even faster and longer. I’ve gone on excursions of 15 miles and more using only the motor at varying speeds around 3 to 5 mph. I have a gps chartplotter on board that shows me the exact distance and average speed for any trip so I know this for a fact. If you purchase an auxiliary battery, the motor will take you farther than you may wish to go in a day at greater speeds. I purchased another (larger) battery and despite my best attempts I have not been able to wear them both down during daylight hours in normal operation of about 3 to 5 mph. Ranges of 30 to 40 miles or more are possible.

    In the worst conditions you’re likely to encounter on a TI, the motor can possibly save your life, or at least get you back to shore in one piece. The worst I encountered so far was trying to head three miles back to the launch directly upwind in a nasty thunderstorm that came out of nowhere with steady winds of 25-30 mph and against 3 to 4 foot waves. Granted this is not the worst conditions anyone will encounter, but it was bad enough for me. I managed to move along at a steady speed of around 2.5 to 4 mph sometimes pedaling with the motor, sometimes not. I was not using the sail because I needed to head directly upwind to get back asap (I hate lightning when on the water). The steady thrust provided by the motor got me back safe and sound, I may not have been able to do it by pedaling alone against the heavy winds and waves and I wouldn’t want to have had to find out. My TI forward hatch leaks badly in rough conditions and the boat was laden with about 15 gallons of water inside the hull that day so this added another 125 pounds of weight, yet the motor came through for me. I’ll never leave home without it again.

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    Reverse:
    This motor has a reverse feature. You simply move the throttle back toward you from neutral much like a power boat helm control. The prop nearly instantly (slight lag) goes into reverse. Like the new reversing Mirage Drive it’s great to finally have an easy way to move the mighty TI backwards, especially in tight quarters, or if you’re about to run into something, or if you need to slow the boat down faster. However the TI is big, it takes some time to get it to move into reverse. The prop is optimized for forward movement, not to go backwards. Also you’ll need to rig the optional tilt down/reverse hold line like I did or else there’s nothing to stop the motor from thrusting upward. All in all it works quite well, but it’s not very fast in reverse. I’ve used it many times in the launch area where I have to turn 90 degrees at the last minute to line up with the dock. If another boat suddenly gets in the way I use the reverse to stop, and then back up. Before I had this motor I used to have to frantically swap the Mirage Drive in backwards to go in reverse. That was no fun. This is much better.

    Noise:
    The motor is far, far quieter than any small outboard I’ve ever heard, but it is not silent as some people may think or expect. It makes a typical whirring sound that you would normally associate with such an electric motor. It’s not loud, I would estimate about 50-55 decibels, or just below a normal voice conversation. It can get louder or softer as you accelerate depending upon how hard it’s working, acoustic harmonics, and where it hits its most efficient operation, much like any motor. Unless you’re particularly sensitive to such sounds it shouldn't bother you much at all as long as you didn't purchase it expecting virtually silent operation. However some people do complain that it’s not silent. But it certainly isn’t loud either. I can tell you I’ve unintentionally snuck up on people fishing on kayaks in very quiet still rivers and startled them as I went by. Some told me they never even heard me. They always ask how I can go so fast because it isn’t obvious that I’m running under motor power. Try doing that with a gas motor.

    Battery:
    The high tech 29.6 Volt DC, 320 Watt Hour, 11 Amp Hour lithium battery that comes with the 403 is surprisingly small and lightweight for the power it provides when compared to a typical 12 Volt DC lead acid battery that powers most marine electric motors, and is worlds ahead of it in technology. It contains an integrated gps and charging/protection circuitry. It weighs only about 6 pounds compared to a typical weight of about 55 pounds for a group 24 sized marine lead acid battery and supplies more power. It will recharge overnight using the provided charger but you can purchase other charges if you need to charge it faster. It will also charge, albeit slowly, with solar panels and has many other charging options. Newer ones come with a USB compatible port to power or charge your smartphone. It’s waterproof to IP67 specifications and will even float. It’s definitely not inexpensive though, a replacement costs $524 USD.

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    One of the worst kept secrets of the Ultralight 403 motor is that you can use a more powerful 1147-00 battery normally used for the larger Torqeedo Travel 503 / 1003 model outboard motors, even though Torqeedo does not admit this. This battery is rated at 29.6 Volts DC, 532.8 Watt hours, 18 Amp hours and appears to be fully compatible with the 403. It’s only $87 USD more than the normal battery and well worth the money for the extra capacity. It’s too bad the 403 does not come stock with this battery. I purchased one as a spare and when I use it, it will go all day. I can usually get well over 20 miles on it at varying speeds of 3.5 to 5 mph. It’s a beast and not much heavier or larger than the stock battery.

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    Believe it or not there is now an even more powerful compatible battery rated at 29.6 Volts DC, 915 Watt hours, 31Amp hours, but it cost nearly $1K USD. That could last for days.

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Cons:
I’ve discussed most of the amazing attributes of the Ultralight 403 so it’s only fair that I divulge some of the cons. First and foremost, it’s expensive. It costs hundreds more than a roughly equivalently powered gas motor. However, as I mentioned earlier, if you were to add the additional hardware required to give a gas powered motor remote throttle and helm steering like the 403 has, the price would be about the same, not that you need to do this. Still, given all it’s advantages and technology, I strongly feel the price is worth it. With quality comes cost. I initially hesitated to buy one and had to talk myself into spending the money, but now that I’ve owned one I would do it again in a heartbeat. I can’t imagine using the TI without it.

It can be touchy concerning error codes. The motor is well protected against anything that can harm it thermally or electrically and it has safety features. However it can and does, very occasionally, throw error codes. Most of these can easily and quickly be reset if a problem is not critical. However mine has recently been giving me E04 errors which means it thinks it’s tilted in the up position. If I tap the motor the error immediately goes away, so it’s just a sticky tilt switch, but it is annoying. I can have it fixed under warranty but then I have to send it to a repair facility which is too far away to drive. If it doesn’t stop doing this by the end of the season I’ll send it in for repair. However just because mine does this does not mean any others do it. It’s probably an isolated incident. Despite this one minor, annoying issue it’s been very dependable so far and has never failed me for more than a minute or two on the water. This is much more than I can say for many gas powered marine motors I have owned in the last 32 years.

Earlier models had an issue with fishing line getting caught on the prop shaft and cutting the o-ring seal resulting in water ingress and subsequent motor failure. It’s been reported here in this forum and elsewhere that this issue has been resolved by re-engineering the design as of the summer of 2015, but I cannot independently verify that. I have not seen this issue with mine, but it was manufactured after it was supposedly fixed.

Update: I now have been able to verify that 403 motor has been redesigned to address the issue of fishing line getting wrapped around the prop shaft as of late 2015. Please see page 2 of this thread for a photo of the redesign.

Overall the entire system is very well engineered and built with high quality components, after all it’s designed and manufactured mostly in Germany. It should last many years. Spare parts are readily available if you break a prop or skeg, loose the magnetic key, need a new cable, battery, or a controller, etc. Customer service is responsive, they will answer any questions you email them in a day or so. Some say the warranty service is great, others have complained when they were refused a repair of the o-ring/fishing line issue under warranty.

I did come across a few flaws. The aforementioned round motor shaft should have included a water foil or anti-cavitation plate because the motor works sooo much better at full throttle when cavitation is managed. There was a guide in the gimbal mount that the tilt up line passes through that I had to polish smooth because it was initially rough and cut the line. It could have been designed to trailer better or at least have a fast disconnect. Maybe it could have been designed for even quieter operation. But these complaints are all relatively minor compared to all the things it does right and the benefits it provides. I mention them here only for completeness. I’m highly satisfied with mine.

Conclusion:

The bottom line is that the versatile TI is primarily a sail boat, and like most sail boats it can really benefit with the addition of a small motor for those times when you need it. With a motor you will have a very rare and very useful tri-powered boat which will increase your range, enjoyment, confidence, and safety. A small, lightweight but powerful, easy to install and manage motor like the Torqeedo 403 Ultralight should go to the top of your short list if you wish to add a motor to your Tandem Island.


Last edited by pro10is on Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:14 am
Posts: 6
Nice review! It is a decent motor and I typically run it at 3.5 mph. The fastest mine runs is around 5.5 mph on a Hobie TI. I have had one since about November 2015. I also use the Yakima WindJammer as a foil and find it helpful. A funny tip turns out that the WindJammer doesn't need to be riveted down as everyone claims but will actually snap close on its own if you apply enough force (and is less likely to move around though it sometimes will anyway). I own two of the 915 kWh batteries and use them to travel back and forth between Long Beach and Catalina Island (24-28 miles). Monthly maintenance of motor contacts using WD-40 is important to minimize some error codes, but other than that, it is a good motor and has survived some serious adventures. Defender Marine has some of the best prices I have seen and are the largest Torqeedo vendor I am aware of in the U.S.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:37 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Nice review,
As you know the TI is a pretty large boat for such a small motor, I suspect it would be even more versatile on a kayak like a Revo 13. I am however fairly impressed with the 6mph top speed from such a small motor. My question is do you think their would be room for dual 403's on the TI, basically one on each side of the rudder, both with steering cables. I would have two separate battery banks and dual throttle controls, one on each side of me.
I'm pretty certain Torqeedo won't have the much higher pitch props I will require to get me to my desire 15mph top end, and understand I will need to design an build my own props (not a big issue for me).
The torqeedo motors will never be my primary propulsion source, so the horsepower will be fine (very close to what horsepower I am currently using). I know it may sound silly, but what I'm basically doing is moving the useful power range from the current 0 to 6mph up to 10 to 15mph usable power range by adjusting the propeller pitch. Of course the motors will be useless for primary propulsion, I'm totally aware of that and expect that. Basically at 15mph the props will be spinning at the stated max 1200 rpm vs the current 6mph. Also having dual props in the water, each only has to provide half the propulsion effort.
Of course I'll work out all the power consumption requirements on how many batteries I'll need to cover a hundred miles, I expect my power consumption to be way less than you are currently experiencing since I'm only expecting the electrics to provide 1/3 of my propulsion needs. You alluded to tri-power, that's my thing.
Everything else of course I'll figure out and solve, but getting a good feeling that the twin 403's mounted on the back of the TI would be a good first step down a long road (and probably expensive).
FE


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:38 pm 
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frond_wonderland wrote:
Nice review! It is a decent motor and I typically run it at 3.5 mph. The fastest mine runs is around 5.5 mph on a Hobie TI. I have had one since about November 2015. I also use the Yakima WindJammer as a foil and find it helpful. A funny tip turns out that the WindJammer doesn't need to be riveted down as everyone claims but will actually snap close on its own if you apply enough force (and is less likely to move around though it sometimes will anyway). I own two of the 915 kWh batteries and use them to travel back and forth between Long Beach and Catalina Island (24-28 miles). Monthly maintenance of motor contacts using WD-40 is important to minimize some error codes, but other than that, it is a good motor and has survived some serious adventures. Defender Marine has some of the best prices I have seen and are the largest Torqeedo vendor I am aware of in the U.S.


Great additional info, thanks! Nice to know there's more 403 / TI users out there.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:17 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
Nice review,
As you know the TI is a pretty large boat for such a small motor, I suspect it would be even more versatile on a kayak like a Revo 13. I am however fairly impressed with the 6mph top speed from such a small motor. My question is do you think their would be room for dual 403's on the TI, basically one on each side of the rudder, both with steering cables. I would have two separate battery banks and dual throttle controls, one on each side of me.
I'm pretty certain Torqeedo won't have the much higher pitch props I will require to get me to my desire 15mph top end, and understand I will need to design an build my own props (not a big issue for me).
The torqeedo motors will never be my primary propulsion source, so the horsepower will be fine (very close to what horsepower I am currently using). I know it may sound silly, but what I'm basically doing is moving the useful power range from the current 0 to 6mph up to 10 to 15mph usable power range by adjusting the propeller pitch. Of course the motors will be useless for primary propulsion, I'm totally aware of that and expect that. Basically at 15mph the props will be spinning at the stated max 1200 rpm vs the current 6mph. Also having dual props in the water, each only has to provide half the propulsion effort.
Of course I'll work out all the power consumption requirements on how many batteries I'll need to cover a hundred miles, I expect my power consumption to be way less than you are currently experiencing since I'm only expecting the electrics to provide 1/3 of my propulsion needs. You alluded to tri-power, that's my thing.
Everything else of course I'll figure out and solve, but getting a good feeling that the twin 403's mounted on the back of the TI would be a good first step down a long road (and probably expensive).
FE

The size of the TI doesn't seem to bother the 403 very much. It still gets a decent top end and accelerates very nicely. The excellent hull design of the TI is probably the reason. It's much better than most typical kayaks. I get a better top speed with the 403 on the TI than a lot of the kayak users report.

If you offset each motor as much as you can side to side then I don't know why two 403's couldn't be mounted to the back of the TI. Shouldn't be that difficult except possibly for rigging each to the rudder but that shouldn't be all that hard either. I'm almost tempted to try it myself. You could probably even do it with the existing hardware and no mods to the TI's hull because there should be room for two ball mounts, they're not that big.

The existing prop is of a simple design, a good prop shop should have no trouble making a couple with the pitch you want. But before you go to that expense see what Torqeedo has on hand. A prop from one of their other motors may fit or could be made to fit and may have the pitch you're looking for. A long shot but you never know. Start here: http://search.defender.com/search.aspx?expression=454473+453782+454962

You could easily stack the batteries on top of each other. If money wasn't a object and you had twin 1148-00 915 Watt batteries that would give you amazing range, and they're so small and light you could carry more batteries in the front hatch.

I wouldn't put a throttle control on each side, I would simply mount them together side by side on the same Ram Mount. That would save space and you could easily control both with one hand like a dual engine powerboat helm throttle control. Torqeedo even sells a dual throttle although I don't know if it's compatible with the 403.

Image

You should talk to Chris Baker chris@currentsunshine.com. He is an Australian Torqeedo dealer and one of the top expert dealers in the world. He should be able to answer most of your questions.


Last edited by pro10is on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:57 pm 
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pro10is wrote:
If you offset each motor as much as you can side to side then I don't know why two 403's couldn't be mounted to the back of the TI. Shouldn't be that difficult except possibly for rigging each to the rudder but that shouldn't be all that hard either. I'm almost tempted to try it myself. You could probably even do it with the existing hardware and no mods to the TI's hull because there should be room for two ball mounts, they're not that big...

Now that I think of it you could probably mount two motors off of a single ball mount. You would only need to rig a Tee splitter on the end of the aluminum shaft that mounts to the gimbal. That would be easy.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:00 am 
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pro10is wrote:
pro10is wrote:
If you offset each motor as much as you can side to side then I don't know why two 403's couldn't be mounted to the back of the TI. Shouldn't be that difficult except possibly for rigging each to the rudder but that shouldn't be all that hard either. I'm almost tempted to try it myself. You could probably even do it with the existing hardware and no mods to the TI's hull because there should be room for two ball mounts, they're not that big...

Now that I think of it you could probably mount two motors off of a single ball mount. You would only need to rig a Tee splitter on the end of the aluminum shaft that mounts to the gimbal. That would be easy.

OR - You could install both motors on the same shaft. One would just be slightly in front of the other which would not be an issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:25 am 
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Just an accurate data point and some numbers.. I have the 2.5 hp Suziki gas outboard and at full throttle it does close to 8 mph on a 2015 TI (400 foot elevation). With a gallon of gas (about 8 pounds) and the 2.5 hp outboard (about 31 pounds), I get a range of over 50 miles at about 6.5 mph.

It looks like you get about 5 mph with 400 watt motor peak and use a 532 watt hour battery. At 5 mph, you get 1.33 hours out of that battery so travel 6.65 milles. If you used the 915 WH battery, you can go 2.28 hours at 5 mph for a total of 11.43 miles.

Do you know the total weight of all the parts you needed to add? The gas solution is 31 pnds for the outboard plus 8 pounds for gas plus 6 pounds for an aluminium mount. Total gas outboard weight is 45 pounds but that will take you over 50 miles at 6.5 mph.

To get the same range with electric, you would need 4 to 5 of those 915 WH battery packs. I found shipping wieght for those (16 pounds) so assume they are maybe 13 pounds each. Four of those batteires to get the same would weigh more than my whole setup and cost about 4X.

Please dont take this wrong as I like the electric option and a really nice thing about what you did is not exceed the 400 watt limit on the TI sticker. Torqueedo's equivalent HP to gas must be created in their marketing dept as I think that 400 watt motor says its equivalence to a 2 hp gas yet my peak speeds with the 2.5 hp gas is 8 mph. That is a LOT higher than you can get with the 400 watt Torqueedo.

Its still pretty much if you want long range motoring, gas is going to be lighter and a lot cheaper. But for under 10 miles range. the electric certainly is a nice. Even though those small four stroke gas outboards are fairly quiet, you generally operate them from the rear where you head is very close to the outboard and that is loud. There are really very little fumes from a four stroke.. but sometimes hard to start and the electric.. just turn it on, always starts.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:15 am 
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It all really depends on what you plan to use your boat for, inshore on lakes the Torqeedo would be great. Also once the wind gets above around 8mph, most would tilt the motor up and just sail (no longer need the motor at all).
Our situation is a little different, we are divers (our favorite thing to do), and we tend to only go out in winds 3-7mph max and really flat water (which is typical around here 80% of the year).
Most outboards size their fuel tanks for 1hr operation at WOT (at full horsepower output). However if the engine is only operating at just above idle (right around 3/4hp output), I can get three hrs runtime per tank of fuel (1 tank is 1qt on the Honda 2.3). With twin Hondas thats 1/2 gallon of fuel burned every three hrs. Because of my custom props, running the engine rpm just high enough to engage the centrifical clutches (I'm guessing around 1000-1200 rpm) with no sails out and in dead calm water, the boat goes right around 7-8 mph (5mph with just 1 motor running, (I often just tilt just one down and leave the other for safety backup). The engines have underwater exhaust and you can barely hear them running from the front seat, you can easily talk over them. I typically start the engines when I go out and just leave the idle all the time I'm out.
The reason the second motor was added was the minimum apparent wind over my wing sail is 6mph, below that it's just a big wind indicator and provides zero propulsion. Plus I way prefer the noise of just the idling motors over the scream at WOT. You can hear me talking over the motors on all my videos.
I generally never operate the motors over 1/4 throttle. Most days I go out I usually cover between 10 and 15 miles (always peddling (that's my exercise program). Obviously I cheat by any means possible to get my 15 weekly peddling miles in. Most weekends I use about a half tank from each motor, and am done in a couple hrs.
Basically I'm totally sold on that tri-power stuff, and am definately no hard core man vs sea sailer. I just want to get where I want to go as quickly as possible, so I can get the heck out of the boat and get in the cool water (diving, snorkeling, sand bars, etc). It's really hot here in Florida, and having a 25mph breeze on your face and spray, is way more comfortable than a 3mph breeze in 95 degree sun. (Just sayin).
FE

EDIT:
Basically it's your choice you can either be out like this (engines were in the water but just idling (the clutches weren't engaged):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGL9eLWS0iQ



Or like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-npwA3izDiw


Both videos were taken on the same day in aprox the same winds (5-6mph) within about an hr of each other, the first video I think the winds were 4-5mph, (that video was actually later in the day on the return trip) and the second video (taken earlier in the day), the winds were around 6 mph (there was an afternoon wind shift). As you can hear in the video, the engines were running at just over 1/4 throttle (maybe 1/2, not really sure) (definately not idling, and a little higher throttle than I normally run), But the noise still isn't too bad. The biggest problem I run into sailing upwind like that (about 15-20 deg off the wind), is the apparent wind gets a little too powerful and it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain control of the boat, as seen in the video as speeds increase it quickly becomes almost out of control. For example if I were sailing upwind in 15mph winds, and the boat is traveling 15 mph that's over 30 mph gusting winds thru the cockpit (natural wind plus forward motion wind), this makes control of the boat very dicey, in other words I really have to work very hard at those higher speeds to maintain control, and if I'm skipping over rough chop, it just seems to be excessively hard on the boat itself (and my body). So I seldom go out in anything but 5-7 mph winds, and flat water.

I know what my horsepower requirements are, to get my tri-power stuff to work I need 1.5 total hp (3/4hp from each motor), this is why I think the twin Torqeedos might actually work for me, the only remaining question is range.

Currently with my present setup with two really fit peddlers peddling like wildmen we get the same performance as seen in video two with no motors of any kind (either gas or electric). The problem that comes up is the human energy output required to maintain such speeds exceeds human muscle capability. In other words, sure we can go that fast but we are totally exhausted in 2-3 miles. By adding the auxillary propulsion system (either hybrid gas or solar/electric) this brings the human energy requirement from around 50% down to around 20% of my energy requirements (within my own physical abilities). My current energy usage requirement is 40% from my wing/sail wind amplifier tech, 40% from my hybrid gas auxillary power, and the reamaining 20% from human pedal power when solo, with a second peddler the human component goes up to 30%. Obviously subject to a humans physical limitations on endurance.
Because of my own physical limitations, and the current design of my wing tech I have to use the supplimental propulsion (either my current hybrid gas setup, or my soon to be dual 403 Torqeedo electric/solar setup).
Obviously my end game is to be able to totally eliminate the auxillary propulsion component alltogether, and rely solely on the human peddling and my wing tech, but with a twist... I have absolutely no desire to go 3mph. The cruise speed of my current setup is 8-10mph regardless of natural wind direction and speed (actually I don't need any natural wind at all). With my current setup if I have good natural winds (over 10-12mph), my TI easily cruises sustained 10-12mph, but as mentioned earlier it gets pretty hairy operating at those speeds (too scary for me).
I also have a 3rd mode that scares the daylights out of me, and I simply no longer do. That mode is putting my big spin on increasing the sail area up to 260sq ft, putting my hydrofoils on the boat (which are retired now), and going all out in 15-20mph plus winds. With my big motors running WOT and flying all sails my TI easily sustains 15-20mph. Watching the boat flex and the obvious strain on everything ( including me, it's an absolute brutal ride (I used to race all out 3point hydroplanes, this is more brutal, and more physically demanding, just sayin)), I simply no longer do that (I value my life (lol)), and don't recommend others do the same, the boat itself was never designed for such abuse. And totally outside of my intentions of a human powered tri-bred vessel (yea I got side tracked off my goal (lol)).
Now I have the Eclipse flow 90 fin technology (thanks Hobie). And my finalized designs for my gen 3 wing tech completed. I'm pretty certain within two yrs I will have my TI to the point where solo with no aux propulsion (ie, motors) I should be able to peddle solo (within my own severe energy limitations) at an average 8-10mph cruise speed regardless of the actual natural wind direction and speed for several hrs. With a second strong peddler we should be able to maintain 10-12 mph cruise speed, for at least a few hrs with a couple rest stops in between of course. Btw these have been the current capabilities of my current tri-powered Hybrid setup for 3 yrs now (I pretty much maxed out my gen 2 wing designs and have just been using the crap and having fun until I get my next gen (gen3) stuff completed, realistically I'm probably still a few yrs away. Until then I'm seriously considering the dual Torqeedo/solar route. I'm inspired with what I am seeing (especially with their new battery). However, all that might be beyond my hobby budget (no matter how I cut it, I can't pull that much expense under the wifes nose (lol).
No matter the outcome, I'm having fun, that's all that counts.
FE


Last edited by fusioneng on Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:20 am 
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walt wrote:
Just an accurate data point and some numbers.. I have the 2.5 hp Suziki gas outboard and at full throttle it does close to 8 mph on a 2015 TI (400 foot elevation). With a gallon of gas (about 8 pounds) and the 2.5 hp outboard (about 31 pounds), I get a range of over 50 miles at about 6.5 mph.

It looks like you get about 5 mph with 400 watt motor peak and use a 532 watt hour battery. At 5 mph, you get 1.33 hours out of that battery so travel 6.65 milles. If you used the 915 WH battery, you can go 2.28 hours at 5 mph for a total of 11.43 miles.

Do you know the total weight of all the parts you needed to add? The gas solution is 31 pnds for the outboard plus 8 pounds for gas plus 6 pounds for an aluminium mount. Total gas outboard weight is 45 pounds but that will take you over 50 miles at 6.5 mph.

To get the same range with electric, you would need 4 to 5 of those 915 WH battery packs. I found shipping wieght for those (16 pounds) so assume they are maybe 13 pounds each. Four of those batteires to get the same would weigh more than my whole setup and cost about 4X.

Please dont take this wrong as I like the electric option and a really nice thing about what you did is not exceed the 400 watt limit on the TI sticker. Torqueedo's equivalent HP to gas must be created in their marketing dept as I think that 400 watt motor says its equivalence to a 2 hp gas yet my peak speeds with the 2.5 hp gas is 8 mph. That is a LOT higher than you can get with the 400 watt Torqueedo.

Its still pretty much if you want long range motoring, gas is going to be lighter and a lot cheaper. But for under 10 miles range. the electric certainly is a nice. Even though those small four stroke gas outboards are fairly quiet, you generally operate them from the rear where you head is very close to the outboard and that is loud. There are really very little fumes from a four stroke.. but sometimes hard to start and the electric.. just turn it on, always starts.

You bring up some valid points but in the end what it comes down to is how fast you feel you need to go for long distances using a motor-only option. Let's agree to throw out the 8 mph speed because few TI owners would be willing to tolerate the scream of a gas engine at wide open throttle for any length of time, and you're the first person I've heard claim that a single 2.5 HP four stroke will power the TI to 8 mph. I'm not doubting you, I just never heard that before so I don't think that's typical. Maybe you were lucky to get an exceptional engine. Either way 8 mph with one motor is impractical for long distances. So let's instead work with 5 mph as a reasonable speed for a single gas engine application. It's true that the 403 can't compete with a gas engine's range at a constant 5 mph speed. If you require motor-only ranges over about 15-20 miles at a constant speed of 5 mph then a gas engine will probably be cheaper to purchase than a 403 with several batteries. That point I readily admit.

However in my review I specifically stated that maximum speed is not what the 403 is all about. It's about having a viable alternative to a gas motor. I don't agree at all with your statement that electric motors are nice only for under 10 miles range. That is simply not true. The 403 has an excellent range at varying speeds of 3 to 5 mph. I can go well over 20 miles motor-only on the mid-sized 533 Watt battery alone and another 15 miles on the smaller battery. I'm not going 5 mph all the time, sometimes I'm going 3.5 mph, sometimes 4.5 mph. Sometimes the wind and waves are helping me, sometimes they're working against me. I also stated that most of the disinformation about this motor is coming from people who don't even own one. That's because they're sitting down and trying to work out the power vs speed vs range equations without taking into account the actual real world use of the motor, and then telling themselves and others to buy a gas engine instead. It's simply not that simple. This is an auxiliary power source, not a primary one. It's used in conjunction with the sail and pedals, and only sometimes alone. If you need to go fast for long distances, then the TI with a motor as primary propulsion is not the right boat for that purpose. That's why an electric motor as an auxiliary power source makes excellent sense for this specific boat and its actual intended purpose as a dual or tri-powered vessel, and that's the primary point I'm trying to make in the review.

What everyone needs to decide for themselves is what they need from a motor option. If you absolutely need to go as fast as possible for very long distances, then buy a gas motor, or better yet buy a boat better suited to that. If you don't, then you have the option of gas or electric. Electric motors are lighter, cleaner, quieter, safer, and more convenient in operation and with maintenance. They also don't pollute our seas and lakes, something anyone who loves boating should think seriously about. Two stroke outboards are horrendous polluters, the four strokes are better but they're still belching out tons of exhaust right into the water and over time that adds up. I'm not a conservationist, but as someone who has always enjoyed boating and nature I have a conscience, and I do think about these things. It's one of the reasons I switched from powerboats to sailboats. Just sayin. I feel electric motors are the future. When they finally solve the range problem it's all but over for gas engines, and good riddance to them. Just look at what Tesla is doing with cars.

But I digress. Decide for yourself first if you need or want a motor, then whether gas or electric will work better for your specific purposes. Don't rule either out until you have all the facts.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:43 am 
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Thanks for the great review of this motor. I hope you continue to post about your experience with it as you use it more.
There are probably others that are interested in it for it's own merits rather than how it compares to a gas motor.

Chris


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:12 am 
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Greatly appreciated review Pro10is. I've had my eye on this motor for awhile and was excited to see it.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:51 am 
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I agree great review, I've been closely following Torqeedo for several yrs now with great interest, they are light years ahead of the rest of the manufacturers who all seem to be in the same exact rut, all trying to fit their entire product line onto that one elusive 3000 lb. bass boat, thinking the users only want to troll at 2-3mph, at around a 15% duty cycle, and can add as many heavy batteries as they please, and assuming all boats have an alternator for recharging.
All us poor saps with kayaks are stuck with having to adapt that crap to our needs. Case in point, try to find a trolling motor prop not designed to propel a 3000 lb boat at 3mph,,,,, there aren't any, but there are plenty weed free props ( lol).
You only need to glance at other markets such as scooters, electric bikes, wheel chairs, golf carts, robots, toys and see they all have PWM drives and lithium batteries at 1/10the cost. Actually many motors these days have the PWM electronics built in, and very high power controllers can be purchased for $30-50 dollars.
I feel strongly that It's the general trolling motor industry itself that is so far behind the curve and out of touch with reality it's not even funny, trying to push 30 yr old technology on all of us.
Case in point look at a minnkota 30# endura, from 20 yrs ago and a current model, they should be ashamed (IMO).
Case in point does it really cost $200 dollars more to paint the motor white vs black, and dip the motherboard in plastic coating, and add a small piece if zinc.
Why is Torqeedos solar panel so expensive ($900 for a 45w amorphous panel), I wonder if you couldn't just buy a pair of marine 12v mono crystal flexible 40's hook them up in series for half the price, if that's not practical, just add a small 12v lith battery with an inverter to power the 110 charger that comes with the torqeedo system to charge the Torqeedo batteries, this way the 12 volt system could power all the aux things like fish finders (most everyone has them), and lights, radios, etc. actually I have a 400 or 600 amp lithium battery jumper (for jump starting cars), that is the size of a book and only a couple lbs, I bought at I think Lowes for next to nothing, it includes Usb and 12 vdc power adapters. That whole package could go in a dry box on the rear deck with some damp rid crystals sprinkled on a false screen floor, with a couple pin holes drolled in the bottom to drain the water out of the box (those damp rid crystals are a must (amazing stuff). If you need to charge your IPad or Iphone it's safest to plug it in and keep it inside the dry box while charging (I know of no waterproof USB stuff.
It's just not Torqeedos fault that the main body of the industry are a bunch of morons IMO (excuse my french (lol)), and have no competition. Granted recently some nice stuff is coming out from other manufacturers, but they think adding a $20 dollar gps , or a $30 dollar PWM controller to their same old crap increases the cost by a thousand bucks (give me a break).
Yea Torqeedo likely puts 70% profit in their pockets, I don't blame them one bit they offer are very good, really well designed products ( I'm a designer and appreciate that kind of stuff very much), but look what they are up against (no competition).
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to design injection molds and seals, that protect the precious electronics from water intrusion, using $10 bucks worth of plastic (just sayin) Torqeedo does it why can't anyone else. Heck I can even supply them with the indestructable heat conducting plastic that they would need for around a buck a lb.

I was born, but not yesterday.
Signed
Frustrated FE, I want all that stuff but I hate having to invent everything myself, (for my own personal use only)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:56 am 
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The past salt water trolling motors I use with my AI lasted 1-2 seasons when used in salt water. Does anyone have a feel for how long the Torpedo motors are lasting?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:53 pm 
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Will the motor fit through the mirage drive slot if I wanted to make a custom mount for it ?

thanks
Chris


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