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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:49 pm 
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The bottom of the furling drum to the very bottom of the mast end cap on mine is 262mm.

250mm is definitely a bit short in my opinion.

My guess is that the glue-up of these items is not exactly a high precision process. Your fix is probably the best way to do it without removing the drum and re-gluing it. That would likely involve having to do damage to the drum and subsequently replace it.

When you inserted the washer under the mast support pin, did that raise the pin as well, or just the base plate? If the pin was raised as well, it should insert just as far into the mast end cap as it ever did.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Thanks Tom for your response.

Yep, 262mm, thought so. 260 with a 2 mm gap. So I'm thinking my mast suits the V1 and not the V2. ie: the V2 hull is 10mm deeper than the V1.

I know what your saying with my fix. I didn't want to unscrew the stainless steel base plate and add the spacer between it and the hull. This would then put a greater load on the screw which would have needed to be 10mm longer. The correct fix is to have the mast drum glued in the right spot in the first place. I'll wait for Matt's reply on Monday to confirm what the factory specs are.

Thanks again mate.

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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Slaughter,
It does sound like your furling drum is in the wrong place. I think your spacer is a good temporary fix but it should be under the mast base/pin which is a single unit. The four screws that hold the plate down should handle the extra stress of a 10mm spacer. Many of the early TI's had loose screws. I was sailing with only one screw in place until I realized the others were missing! :roll:
So you have had trouble right from the start with your mast not furling?
There is still all this conflicting info out there regarding how to adjust the furling drum clearance. :?
Did Dan Ketterman have any input into the design of the AI/TI I wonder?
You may be right in that the upgrade to V2 changed the specs?


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:09 am 
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stringy wrote:
Slaughter,
There is still all this conflicting info out there regarding how to adjust the furling drum clearance. :?


On the V2 it seems that the only adjustment now Stringy is about 5mm if that. I went over to my new local Hobie dealer today to do a few measurements, which just put my mind at rest that i wasn't going mad. They agreed that it looks like it may be an issue and will also be keen to see what the outcome is.

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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:24 am 
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I'm not sure if my hull is a V1 or V2. It shows a manufacturing date of March 2012.

But the spacing is as listed and it fits well and works fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Tom, if your mast measures 262mm and it works fine, it must be a V2.

If it measures 250-252mm and works fine it's a V1.

If, like mine it measures 250-252mm and doesn't work fine, it's a combination of V1 and V2.

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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Location: Aussie living in San Diego, CA
Slaughter wrote:
......... The correct fix is to have the mast drum glued in the right spot in the first place. I'll wait for Matt's reply on Monday to confirm what the factory specs are.
Has anyone gotten more information from Hobie Dealers or Hobie itself on this? This thread prompted me to go and check my new TI - I have only had 6 sails in it and all in 5-15knots but I when I checked the mast support base I can see that the mast is sitting on the base and is gouging it as it gets furled. At this rate it will become a pretty bad problem within a year. I didn't realize when I took delivery that the mast was not meant to contact the support plate - I assumed it acted as a "skidplate" and I had been thinking about applying some lubricant until I saw this thread.

Image

Here's a closeup shot of the gouging - Although I've only sailed the boat 6 times it was a demo and there were already scratch marks on the plate when I got it but I just assumed it was "normal wear and tear" and I would need to apply some lubrication - until now. Obviously grains of sand will get in between and act as a grind medium if the gap is not large enough (you can see a grain of sand in the photo).

Image
I have asked my Hobie dealer to see if they can correct the issue - they were not aware that this is an issue and had no information on it or how to fix it.

I did think that perhaps one solution would be to glue a thin ring of teflon to the plate so the mast sits on a slide medium but it would only be a temporary solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Aussie, I had the same issue on my 09 AI. Now I make sure I don't have any tension on the sail before I furl.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:04 pm 
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If you can find a thin white nylon washer or spacer and insert it into the mast base bottom bore, you'll have a quick fix. It only needs to be a millimeter thick to do the job.

In the meantime, smear some Ivory soap on the mating surfaces. You have to reapply it each time, but it's an excellent lubricant (facilitated the Hatteras Lighthouse move, believe it or not).


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Aussie,
I agree with Tom.
Any sort of teflon shim on top of the support plate will only load it up more. All the mast weight should be on the mast base plate in the bottom of the receiver.
As your adjustment is only minor you may be able to resolve the conflicting info regarding whether to pack the base plate or adjust the V-Brace a little to raise the furler drum. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Agree with the rest but firstly Aussie I reckon you need to do the same measurements I did on page 6. This is the only way you'll know if you need to raise the mast 2mm or 12mm. Or put in the 2mm shim in and see if it still fouls ( I put a 5mm shim in and it was still fouling ). We are all still waiting for Hobie's response.

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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:09 am 
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Thanks Tom, Stringy and Slaughter - Now just to see if I got this right - the teflon/nylon shim is going to go up inside the bore of the mast and will sit on top of mast pin when the mast is installed (unlike Slaughter's shim on the base plate) and presumably I need to make it a tight fit inside the mast so it doesn't fall out each time I lift the mast off?

Tom the soap suggestion is a good one - I've often used candle wax for a lubricant - cheap and always on hand but I'll try the soap.

Dave - thanks that's a good tip - most times I do that anyway because furling under load can be hard to do. Missed you at the Flying H Lake Perris event yesterday - we had some solid winds needing a little reefing and we we all had a fast and wet sunset sail. Bill showed off his new hakas too.

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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:50 am 
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Both ways will give the same result Aussie. Tom's is a plug or grommet up in the mast hole. Mine is the white washer around the pin. ( the last photo on page 6 ). Slight minor loading differences but both will work equally well.

But first of all you should take 2 quick measurements to see what the real problem is.

The 1st measurement should be taken from the base of the pin ( or top surface of stainless steel baseplate ) to the worn top surface of the mast receiver.
Image

The 2nd measurement should be from the underside worn surface of the mast drum to the base of the mast.
Image

The 1st measurement should be 2mm less than the 2nd measurement for perfect operation. ( in these photos photo 1 = 248mm and photo 2 = 250mm......perfect )

If the 1st measurement is greater than the 2nd measurement, then write down that difference, add on 2mm for the gap, and that will be your required shim thickness.

However if the 1st measurement is 10mm greater than the 2nd measurement ( like mine was before these photos ) then the mast drum is glued in the wrong spot or you have a V1 mast in a V2 hull.

I hope this helps mate. I have just sent another note to Hobie asking for clarification. I'm sure they are onto it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:47 am 
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I suggested putting your shim into the mast end cap because the pin in the bottom of the hull is intended to support the weight of the mast, not the top of the mast support bracket. Also, the mast should turn or spin easier from that point than from the top of the mast support bracket. But either will work.

Either way will, of course, be a lot better than what you're dealing with now.


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 Post subject: Re: Mast Support Fail
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:41 am 
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As I said, both ways are right and both will take all the weight off the mast receiver by giving a 2mm gap between the mast drum and the mast receiver. ( I think Tom thinks my washer loads up the mast receiver. It doesn't. )

It's all a bit confusing but if you step though the photos above and get those 2 dimensions Aussie, you will know how to solve your problem. Let us know how you go :)

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