Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:24 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Expedition Spray Skirts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:07 am
Posts: 91
Location: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
The last couple of years I always sailed with full size spray skirts, but during the 2011 Fraser Island trip I found a couple of shortcommings of the full size sprayskirts like Kayak Bobs design. (just to clear this up, i don't wanna make Bobs Skirts bad in any way-his ones are great, no doubt. There is no better or worse spray skirt, just a better suited one to specific conditions).

Fully loaded for a week with 22l of water, 10kg of food and 15-20kg camping and fishing gear i noticed a decrease in performance to the Ai's without skirts.

While the full size works well in smooth water, big, long swell or in protected bays it did not quite as well in the typical chop I often find here in Australia.
Spearing into a wave I found the sprayskirts to slow the nose in the 'comming/floating back up' process (stays submerged for longer) and also the skirts would slow the kayak considerabely when going into a wave (lots of extra surface = lots of extra drag). Same happened when surfing a wave until the bow submerges.
It never came apperant to me sailing by myself, but it was noticable with the other 2 unskirted yaks.
So i took them off and observed where the worst spray came from.
The small spay comming of the bow of the kayak proofed not to be a problem, typically landing just in front of the crossbar.
What really made me wet was the splashes of water comming up around the hatch area and then hitting the crossbar / aka connection, which deflects it and sends it all straight into my lap and face.
As a result I designed shorter 'expedition Skirts'.
They still take most of the spray away, while allowing the nose to freely spear through waves, and to come up quickly.
I used them on this years Fraser Trip and am very happy. Still a dry ride, but no performance / speed / 'nose comming up' issues.
They are designed to allow me to freely fold my right ama in to land a fish, without having to deal with the skirts at all.

Image


Last edited by hollgi on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 811
Location: Sydney - Parramatta
Great idea. I like it.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:18 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1524
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Up there for thinking, Holger!

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:06 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 4:13 pm
Posts: 199
Location: oki - jp
i got bobs other design but would love to try these ones out. i sorta wondered about the slowing when coming up from being submerged 2 weeks ago when i got to ride a huge wave and the nose buried and sort of stuck under for a lot longer than it should have.

when, where, how much? maybe bob can come out with a v2 set :D


why is the front of your boat glowing BTW (in that picture)?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:22 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:07 am
Posts: 91
Location: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
Well, although I have made a couple of runs of Sprayskirts and sold them locally i don't think I gonna make more (to sell) in the moment. Too much going on in my life. Yeah, maybe we can work something out with Bob? Thats up to him.
I always used a different mounting solution, so I can fold my ama in, which is essential for fishing.

My bow glows because it is a macic kayak :twisted: !

No, actually it is reflective foil as used by police or ambulances.
Black during the day, but reflects white at night.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:57 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2237
Location: Maui, Hawaii
Interesting idea Holger!

Your Expedition Sprayskirt size does block where the bow-wave rises to hit the aka, which is the major cause of getting wet, especially in the TI. The AI has so many more ways to get us wet! :lol: But I can see the shorter Sprayskirt cutting the majority of direct, buckets full of water in the face & chest, "spray".

I like how my Sprayskirts have help me to learn to control the boat better, especially in busy waves, adjusting the boats angle to the waves as to not sail off one wave so fast as to plow into the the next. Even if only by a few degrees. Less stress on the boat and it's captain and crew, and much more comfortable ride.

But, I can see many times, during longer distance trips or while fishing, where getting to a specific spot as fast as the boat can manage, or keeping on a set tack, and/or just keeping a constant speed on a set course (trolling) as being the primary goal. Even if that means cutting the waves at less than optimum angles and speeds, and getting a little bit beat up.

And since our AI's love to cut through the waves, instead of riding over them, some diving in rougher conditions can be expected. The full size SpraySkirt will stop the nose from submerging, to a point. But nothing will stop it from plowing into larger waves if that is where the boat is headed.

I like that with my Sprayskirt on, that if the boat does dive into a larger wave that it will slow quickly and then slice out to a side, out of the wave, instead of continuing to dive. Many times sailing without a Sprayskirt I've had water up to my armpits! Only the mast and sail visible! :shock: But with the Sprayskirt on, diving the bow does slow headway quickly! And if you need to make good time or miles, or keep a steady speed, it's contrary to that goal.

I'll keep watch, to see responses to the short Sprayshirt idea. For most people, I still think the current full size would be best overall. But for really pushing the boat and in marginal conditions, your shorter Sprayskirt idea probably has a place!

I hope to hear more from you and others as you test it further.

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:07 am
Posts: 91
Location: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
The difference was most apparent with the fully loaded kayak, having 54km (as the crows fly, so probably closer to 60km) sailing to do.
Sailing high at the wind with only a couple of degrees between the desired course and loosing momentum by pointing too high in the wind. Windblown waves 2-3 foot high, coming straight at us.
The 2 fully skirted yaks just couldn’t keep up as easily. One of us just took the skirts completely off completely because of that while out there. Very obvious when the three sisters arrived every couple of minutes. You ride over the first one just to fully spear into the second and third one. We lost maybe a foot or so every time. But over hours that’s accumulates to quite a distance.
Being fully loaded doesn't help the nose to come up quickly either.

As you already said, its different when you just sailing around in an empty boat with no set course. You just choose a slightly different course, or steer of the wave at the end.

After all I have to say I am astonished what a good job these smaller skirts do.
I'd say they still get at least 80% of the spray. Maybe more. Not a big difference really.

So for now I am quite happy with this setup and will stay with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:27 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:13 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Gippsland Lakes. Aust
hollgi,
Very similar experience to your own. Have Kyaking Bob's spray skirts, use them all the time and love them, BUT on a recent two night trip out in the Gippsland Lakes found that running downwind with the full load that the nose was digging into the backs of the waves, stalling the hobie and was very slow coming out. Felt very uncomfortable at times. Thought that with a stronger wind that a pitch pole was possible :shock: . Took a lot of the fun out. My mate and I discussed having to ditch the spray skirts when fully loaded :cry: Not all that happy because we usuall do 4-6 camping trips in the Hobbie each summer
Your smaller spray skirts look to be the solution. So, well done. Is it possible for you to measure your skirts and post the dimensions on this forum?

Al Kemp

_________________
AlanK
2011 Hibiscus AI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:04 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Kailua 96734
I like this idea.

We just need to fly these alongside bob's skirts and slaughters splitter. That should be revealing.

I tend to think that slaughters shields could be trimmed back like these shrouds, to create the ideal splash guard.

Good job guys. Keep tweaking!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:31 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 1590
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Agree that the Splitter could be trimmed back a tad, in fact it could possibly be about 1/2 the length it currently is and just held on by the hatch occy straps. It wouldn't be as effective though as some of the wave splash is originating about 300mm back from the front handle and wrapping up and around the hull. A shorter version could be like a Expedition Splitter.

_________________
Image

Don't take life too seriously................it ain't permanent.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: South Florida
Yes, keep up the experimenting. Very interesting.

A good friend made a pair spray skirts for me--tried to imitate KB, but they were a bit loose & sloppy as first mounted. We were doing a return trip while fully loaded. Any way, my bow dove a couple times on the return and it seemed like it was never going to come back up. Actually scared me the first dive. So, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of these trials.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:11 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Kailua 96734
Like Bob said - There's no feeling quite like flying downwind in open swell, being chased by the waves and suddenly you're looking around going: "hey - where's my boat??" (The whole thing's 2 feet underwater!)

And yes, it's an even better feeling when she finally floats back up. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:36 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:07 am
Posts: 91
Location: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
I am happy to post some more pictures when I come home in two weeks showing size and how I mount them.
I experimented for a year with three different sizes, full, in between and the final result shown in the picture.
I still believe there is no better or worse spray skirt,there is a place for all of them, depending on what you do and where you sail. For a day trip on a lake I'd go full size, doing a week long trip along a coastline I'd defenately go expedition style. All depends on the conditions and your style of sailing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:38 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 400
Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I printed out the skirt photo and looked at my TI. It appears that the skirts are about 52 inches long, by 42 inches, by 32 inches.
I have the larger spray skirts and I agree that the larger skirts do sometimes take awhile to shed water.
This is going to be a winter project. To make the edges more rigid I am going to insert collapsible tent poles.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 400
Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I finished sewing up a pair of 'expedition skirts'. Just have to wait for Spring thaw. After trying out the fit of the new skirts...I realized that Hobie could have extended the tramp material forward as a pair of triangles. The forward part of the tramps slip onto the forward tramps. The skirts could be extensions of the tramps and fastened on the bow. If you didn't want the skirts extended they could be folded back and Velcro-fastened to the top of the tramps.
It would take only a slight amount of modification of the tramp design.

How about it...Matt?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mickeymouse and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group