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 Post subject: Tandem Island Tiller
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:59 pm
Posts: 1
i just sailed my new TI this weekend in 20 knot winds and 3 foot waves....loved it...the only thing i did not like was the rudder control...it was inefficient and hard to muscle...has anyone found a modification that extends that little rudder handle to something more like a tiller? also, when sailing a tandem solo, do you prefer to be aft or forward? i sailed aft and i found it very difficult to come about...


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 Post subject: Re: Tandem Island Tiller
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:04 pm
Posts: 13
I ran into something similar in 20-30 knot winds before down in the keys. I was sailing close hauled and I attempted to make a jibe, the rudder did nothing. I proceeded to tack because of a sand bar. Later after the wind died down a bit I noticed the unresponsive steering and began playing with it. In the high wind I was constantly correcting from the boat steering more up wind (small correction which I'm ok with), but attempting to turn down wind without first sheeting out the sail was nearly impossible.

My suggestion is trying to sheet out the sail some next time you sail in higher winds. Also it is important to make sure your rudder is all the way down, if your rudder is up even a bit steering becomes very hard and it puts alot of stress on your boat. I would not increase the length of the arm as you may start breaking lines/rudder pins.

Hopefuly some more people will way in with their advice. I'd like to know incase I am doing something wrong too.


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 Post subject: Re: Tandem Island Tiller
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2157
Location: Maui, Hawaii
In higher winds you need to turn as much with your sail as you do with your rudder. If you don't let out sheet-line as you turn downwind, your rudder will be fighting the sail, and will probably not win. Steering the rudder on newer AI's and on the TI should NOT be hard. If it is, you probably don't have the boat trimmed correctly for the direction you are trying to go compared to the wind.

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem Island Tiller
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:33 pm
Posts: 108
Location: South Australia
The rudder has surface area forward of the verticle pivot line which powers the rudder.
From memory, this could amount to a few square inches in area.
If your rudder is not down far enough that area will be aft of the pivot line and not powering the rudder.

Have a look when you are on dry land. Maybe something is stopping the rudder going down enough.
Your dealer can probably help if this is the case.

I can sail my TI all day and not get an aching hand from the small tiller.

I always sail from the rear seat. Avoids any risk of pitch pole.

What the others have said about trim of the sail is correct.
This will come with practice and experiment as part of the enjoyment of some great sailing.

Cheers from Brian SA downunder.


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 Post subject: Re: Tandem Island Tiller
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:14 am 
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 6:36 am
Posts: 39
Location: CT
Please think of the pressure point of your sail (kinda near the center a few feet above the foot) Imagine it similar to the Center of Gravity on a diagram

If the sail is fully extended, the Center of Sail Pressure is back a few feet from the mast, and as you Reef or Roll Up the sail it moves forward as the sail shrinks
Imagine having the sail fully extended with the main sheet pulled and locked back tight then imagine the wind coming from over the middle of the kayak.
The wind is perpendicular to the sail and all of it's force is on the Center of Pressure (just above forward seat)

If you configure it this way, on the water, the Sail (and Kayak attached to it!) will want to pivot around the Mast into the wind - the rudder is the only thing to prevent this pivoting.

On a sailboat with a tiller rudder, you have to pull the tiller to the windward side constantly (weather helm) turning the bow away from the wind to hold the boat on it's course instead of pivoting into the wind ( bow coming Up into the wind) if you had released the tiller. Our steering is opposite of a tiller but the concept is the same, you are constantly fighting the sail or center of pressure as it wants the balance the forces on the sail and kayak.

As others mentioned, releasing the main sheet (Line w/ clip attached to the back corner of the sail) will allow the center of pressure to shift forward as the sail flops in the wind, or Reefing the sail (rolling it up) moves the sail Center of Pressure forwards, reducing the Weather Helm effect. Also sitting in the aft seat (if solo) helps reduce Weather Helm by using more of the hull under water farther aft to hold the kayak from pivoting around the mast!

Also, pedalling thru a Tack , keeps the water speed over the rudder, giving it more strength to turn or hold the bow and finally, holding the sail a bit longer on the old, downwind side can help pivot the boat to the new Tack as the wind crosses over the bow and now pushes against the sail, adding momentum to the bow as it moves to the new course (as it gets close, then release the sail to the new downwind side)

The opposite is true for Jibe-ing (wind crossing over the stern during a turn) if the sail is perpendicular to the kayak or course on downwind then call out "Jibe Ho" to warn your passengers that the sail will smack them in the heads if they don't duck! As you turn the stern thru the wind, you have to tighten the main sheet and sail to the center of the kayak before then allowing the sail to gradually swing thru the wind to the opposite side of the kayak and then release the sail main sheet back out if your course remains downwind. You can pull the sail over by hand if the winds are light from one side to the other during a Jibe.

On large sailboats, a metal boom or pole holds and controls the foot of a sail, so having the winds YANK it across the stern during a Jibe has Killed Sailors by crushing their skulls, so develop a good habit for yourself and passengers while Jibe-ing by calling it out and controlling the sail!


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 Post subject: Re: Tandem Island Tiller
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:02 am
Posts: 322
Location: Cape Coral, FL
I have extended my tiller. You'll have to search my posts for it, too difficult to do on a phone.

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2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


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 Post subject: Re: Tandem Island Tiller
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 91
You can also loosen the screw on the handle, lift the handle up and turn it out 90 degrees so that it points to port. Costs nothing and I think it makes handling the tiller effortless . Give it a try. I did eventually add a home made tiller extention for use with a
quarterdeck.


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