Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:10 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
chrisj :
I actually had a chance to get a 110hp Yamaha jetski motor and drive system with a blown piston last week for a hundred bucks. I looked into removing the rear passenger compartment deck on my TI and trying to fit it in there, would definitely be a wild ride. I'm a former powerboat racer so I still think about stuff like that once in a while. Some of my old hydroplanes were only ten feet long, and I wouldn't think twice about hanging 30hp racing motors on them.
Now days you see those 25 ft drag boats with 1000 plus hp going over 260 mph.



Will 2 Evinrude 100's be enough. Down in Key West you see many fishing boats with three to five 300hp motors on them.

It's best not to listen to me, my opinion is pretty biased, basically I want you to use more gas and oil because one of my many inventions (something I invented it by accident) was an inexpensive, safe, reliable oil field perforation system that can be used in pretty much every oil and gas well in the world (all oil and gas wells are perforated with explosives). You might have noticed the huge uptick in oil and gas exploration since 2010 :lol: :lol:

Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: eVOLVE and Solar Panels?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 400
Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I looked into the cost of buying a Hobie Evolve/Torqeedo with the v2 Solar Panel. I gulped and decided to keep pedaling. I was wondering if anyone else made a waterproof flexible solar panel that could be used with the Evolve Motor, but a larger size/wattage? My neighbor bought a Torqeedo motor for his small pontoon boat. It doesn't go very fast but it is so quiet that he powered up to me while I was paddling and I didn't hear the hum until he was almost on top of me. He uses a fairly large deep cycle marine battery...and stated that he can just about motor from sunrise to sunset at half power. He recharges it at night.

I was hoping that there was a solar panel large enough to fit on the Tandem and could produce enough amperage about equal the Li-Mg battery.

Has any tried to use the eVolve-Solar Panel setup.?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:26 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Tidalwave:
Like I described earlier I deep dove into all this stuff a while back. If you look at this solar panel (http://www.siliconsolar.com/30w--12v-ma ... 03363.html ). You would have enough room on the tramps for 4 of these ($80*4=$320). If wired in parallel this would provide 120 watts of 12 volt power, or if you hook two in series you can get around 60 watts at 40 volts (maybe enough voltage to work with the evolve) times two with two units (one for each tramp). The setup I was planning would have involved 3 batteries and a Torqeedo 1003 motor. The plan was to be running on one battery, while two are charging. Working in a merry go round fashion. I would have the solar panels driving an inverter that converts the 12 volts from the panels to 120 vac (you might need a controller and a small agc battery (like from a motor scooter) to stabilize everything. Their would be two of the standard ac chargers that come with the torqeedo and the inverter all within a dry box (or boxes) someplace in the hull. Basically you would run on #1 battery while #2 and #3 charge from the solar panel. Once that battery is dead, you switch to #2 and begin recharging #1. It could all be setup to operate from a single switch. There would be 3 battery level meters, you just switch to the one with the highest charge, the others two would automatically be connected to the solar panel when not in use. No plugs to fuss with or anything just switch the switch to select your battery.
This is all figuring you can get 4 hrs runtime from one charge, and estimating 8 hrs to charge the 520wh batteries (that's why you would need 3). I called and asked a while back and the guy on the phone said you can run with the batteries not on the unit, and you can hook up the remote throttle control (I would definitely verify that)
Since these panels are only 12 volts and the Torqeedo system is 29 volts, you could never run the motor directly from them. But on the upside you will always have plenty of 120vac electricity for you shaver, phone and radio chargers, coffeemaker, xmas tree lights, microwave, or whatever else you need.
Actually there was a guy who entered the EC challenge this year in class 6 with a Windrider 17 equipped pretty much like I describe above, I talked to him for quite a while before the race and we compared notes. What he didn't have was a fuel cell like mine that would run the inverter at night and keep the batteries charging through the night or in clouds and rain which I think ended up being his downfall since I don't think he finished the race.

Of course if you can live with a drive in the mirage well, setting up an evolve system would likely be much easier and cleaner. The only thing you don't get is the bigger motor (like the 1003). A couple guys are running the 520wh batteries on their evolves though, and from my understanding, it gives you the most bang for the buck (buy a second 520wh battery instead of the solar unit). Some of the guys with evolves on their TI's can tell you if they are big enough for a TI.
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:14 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Jupiter, Florida
Bob,
How do you raise and lower the motor for launch and recovery?

_________________
Image

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:04 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Steve:
The motor just tilts up and locks just like a regular outboard, you have to reach around to the release lever to unlock it and tilt the motor down. You have to get on your knees on the back seat to tilt the motor and get it started unless you do it standing next to the boat ( that's what I did today). It just sits ther and idles nicely, the prop is on a clutch so it doesn't spin when idling. I took it out again today and now have 7 hrs on the motor.
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Mt Kuring-Gai, NSW, Australia
Ok - Question for fellow Australians - do you need a boat license in NSW to use the evolve v2 motor in the Tandem Island ?

I'm assuming you do, since it's now a powered craft.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:32 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Just to see if the last trip out was a fluke I went out again today and ran the new Honda motor for another 3 hrs at 1/4 throttle. The winds were typical for around here again (5-6 mph) and fairly steady today. I ran the motor for a little over 3 hrs today. Performance was still amazing to me (but I have low standards LOL).

Here is a video showing me going upwind almost directly into the wind (maybe 10 degrees off the wind):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6heekxLvZc&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

The fuel economy is proving out to be 100mpg (I'm measuring the fuel, and keeping track of my time, and am keeping track of my average speeds out but am just estimating the distance covered (based on the average speeds). Next time I will follow a distance course and follow that measuring time to verify my calculations.

Today my average speed was 6.5 mph. I did get over 9mph a couple times on a reach when the wind picked up for a short period. The speed and performance appears to be best up wind.

I did open the motor up to full throttle for a short period today, I don't intend to do that unless I'm in a dire situation as I'm sure the fuel consumption will be much higher. Without the sails I was running around 7mph, with the sails in 6mph winds on a close reach (about 45 degrees), and tuning the sails I got up to around 9-10mph.

All in all I'm perfectly happy with my setup, it makes sailing a TI in the typical light winds around here acceptable (to me anyway, "again I have pretty low standards",lol)
Just running the motor alone my speed was 3 mph, pedaling increased that to 4mph. Adding the main alone or the jib alone increased me to 5mph (the main and jib are fairly equal in propulsive power to each other). Adding the main and wing jib together and pedaling my speed increased to about 6.5 mph, all running the motor at a constant 1/4 throttle). My test was in fairly rough chop upwind ( about 30 degrees) in a steady 5-6 mph wind. I seem to only get the biggest performance gains upwind from 10 to around 60 degrees into the wind, I suspect because this creates the highest apparent wind. Downwind was pretty disappointing , the motor didn't seem to help much there.


The noise level is acceptable to me (again I have pretty low standards), I'm perfectly satisfied with the performance of my TI now in the typical light to no wind conditions we have around here for most of the year. The motor will always be mounted on the boat for safety purposes anyway, and should be reliable and powerful enough to get me out of any bad situation, and I should be able to get through the passes around here when the tide is running (couldn't do that at all with no motor, and barely with my old motor).
With this setup I can go out and have a fun sailing day, I think I can afford the dollar for the fuel for the day. I am abandoning my plans to build the new wing type main sail. I will put the $200 dollars for the sail into fuel instead over the next couple years. I don't have any additional changes planned, I'm just going to use the boat as is for a while.

Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:37 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1782
Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Bob, how are you keeping track of your average speeds? If you're using a GPS, why don't you just use it to tell you how far you've travelled?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:40 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:26 pm
Posts: 55
I recently got the Evolve motor with the 320V battery for my TI. Just used it a few times now and I achieve a speed of 3 miles / hour running at 120V without the sail out and without pedaling, so it lasts for ca. 2,5 hours with one battery load.

I hardly motorsailed it yet but believe some light wind in the sail will make a big difference on the range.

I am totally amazed how SMALL and light the battery and the motor are. (When i picked it up I couldn't believe that this small "thing" can generate enough power to run the TI)...Usually I bring the whole kit in a small waterproof back, plug in the motor in the mirage drive, leave the battery in the bag and of we go. (It's a total no headache plug and play solution).

Main purpose for the motor was to go slow trolling in the early morning when there is no wind yet and it TOTALLY served my purpose...my catch rate easily trippled after using the evovle.

Peace
Serbi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:18 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Chrisj:
To be honest it never dawned on me to do that. I have a very low end garmin gps that I usually just leave on the compass screen, never looked at any of the other screens. If it's like any of my older higher end garmins it probably has that capability. I will also look for an iPhone ap that can record my tracks. It would be nice to have a bigger system with depth and sonar, that will probably be my next purchase.
I used to be a dive instructor thru the Y ( before PADI or NAUI existed) and had a ten foot telescoping tube with a lense on the end so you could see under water to scope out dive spots ( this was before electronics). What would be really cool would be a small camera on the end of a long pole where I could view live video 15-20 ft down to scope out nice dive spots. Even better would be a steerable camera on a tether to the boat that you can drive down to 50-60 ft. Now days all that stuff is all easy to make, who knows that might be my next project since I now have my boat done finally.
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:58 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Serbi:
That is very valuable information we now know the power consumption on the evolve on a TI. With my gas motor running alone at 1/4 throttle with no sails or pedaling it propels my TI at 3mph. You are drawing 120 watts ( that's the knowledge I was missing). I outlined a 120 watt solar system above that would fit on both of my tramps. In theory anyway you would have the same setup and capability as my setup for power sailing by just adding a wing jib. On a sunny day you could go all day without tapping into your battery reserve at all ( reserving that for emergency use). The more I think about it the more amazed I am about Hobies system. Of course on nice windy days you don't need any of that stuff, but we only get those days around here once in a blue moon ( the evolve would be for emergency backup in case your mast or rudder breaks while out at sea).
Actually if your willing to forego the wing jib, you will still see 5-6 mph speeds by pedaling and using the TI mainsail only ( but it might only work in certain wind directions, I would guess from 30 degrees to around 120 degrees) , but this is just a theory and would need to be tested. Hopefully you or Steve can try it out)
Basically by combining the tri power capabilities if the TI in low wind conditions you can literally leave every other sailboat on the market in the dust, using no fuel at all ( saving that dollar in fuel), in my eyes that's pretty amazing ( but my standards are pretty low, lol). Even with all the extras (ie... evolve, solar panels, extra sails, etc) the whole system is still less expensive than any competing system like the Windrider 17 or the WETA by a significant amount of money.
All this stuff has been out now for a couple years, I'm just really surprised that no one has attempted to connect the dots before now and talked about it, unless I'm missing something huge here. I follow all this kind of stuff and to the best of my knowledge there is nothing on the market anywhere that matches this capability.
This is just me but If I were Hobie I would be offering an E-tandem Island product, basically all rigged and ready to go with two Hobie solar panels, two batteries, evolve system, all wired and ready to go (still cheaper than a WR17) I would have a demonstrator sitting at every dealership, and work an advertising campaign around it, local news TV stations love this kind of stuff, and it cost you nothing but a phone call to call them. Even just offering an entry level setup with 1 panel, and one battery will fill 90% of peoples needs, then offer the second panel and battery as an option for us hard core guys. I know for a fact they would sell hundreds down here in Florida (where the sun shines something like 300 days a year all year round). All this is available now, and a small wing jib could be developed as an option later on to increase the performance even more. Then again I'm probably all wet here and over thinking.
Marine Fuel is now $4.50 per gallon at marinas, A lot of power boaters have stopped and asked me about my setup. Just about every sailboat I have sailed circles around (in irons) yells out that they love my Hobie, and have been looking at them.

Matt: If you send me one, I'm out every weekend anyway, I can pretty much guarantee I could sell a half dozen of these boats a month just in this area and Key West, just by word of mouth and stopping and talking to people (you would need to make up a special sail and some decals with really good artwork, saying Evolve powered, I'm sure your art department could come up with something real striking). Just cruising past Mallory Square (in Key West) every night at sunset (where there are hundreds of people gathered to watch the sunset and festivities) would sell more boats than you can make).
My wife has a store down there (in Key West), and on average there is at least one or two cruise ships per day at that port, and literally thousands of people walking around. All those people are from all over the world !!!. I have a good friend who makes $600k a year just selling hot dogs on Mallory square every night.

Bob


Last edited by fusioneng on Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:56 am, edited 9 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:15 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1860
Location: South Florida
I believe the cheapest Garmin handhelds will give you more information than most people want including Trip Odometer, Moving Time, Stopped Time, Odometer, Speed, Max Speed, Moving Average, Overall Average, Distance to Next Waypoint, Distance to Destination, Estimated Time of Arrival, and many more statistics.

As an aside, I think all Garmin units have essentially the same software functionality. Garmin builds into a particular unit ease of use and functionality to fit the price. That said, even the cheapest units will give you tons of information--it is just not so convenient to access as in the more expensive units.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:34 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 120
Location: South Florida (Coral Springs)
fusioneng wrote:
I have a good friend who makes $600k a year just selling hot dogs on Mallory square every night.
Bob

Serious?! $600,000 a year selling hot dogs? I assume that's a typo. Otherwise, I'm moving there to sell hamburgers. Maybe I'll clear a million with those!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
flaneur :
That's just what I was told by another friend, have no idea if it's true or not (probably not). But if you think about it, there are at least one or two cruise ships in port very day, that's 5000-6000 hungry and thirsty people 'with money' wandering around Mallory square every day craving salt and cool drinks (it's very hot there). Plus every night everyone on the island goes up to Mallory square for the sunset celebration (just happens to be around supper time), that's a lot of people.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:35 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 33
Location: Keyport, WA, USA
TIDALWAVE wrote:
I looked into the cost of buying a Hobie Evolve/Torqeedo with the v2 Solar Panel. I gulped and decided to keep pedaling. I was wondering if anyone else made a waterproof flexible solar panel that could be used with the Evolve Motor, but a larger size/wattage? My neighbor bought a Torqeedo motor for his small pontoon boat. It doesn't go very fast but it is so quiet that he powered up to me while I was paddling and I didn't hear the hum until he was almost on top of me. He uses a fairly large deep cycle marine battery...and stated that he can just about motor from sunrise to sunset at half power. He recharges it at night.

I was hoping that there was a solar panel large enough to fit on the Tandem and could produce enough amperage about equal the Li-Mg battery.

Has any tried to use the eVolve-Solar Panel setup.?


I too can't quite liberate that kind of cash, however the torqueedo is amazingly efficient. Have gone with a MinnKota 55, and a 12v deep cycle battery on my TI.
Have recently acquired some 100w "Photoflex" waterproof flexible panels through Grape Solar and Costco, about $250 each. They are powering a solar trike, and I am itching to try them on the TI
http://www.grapesolar.com/component/vir ... l?Itemid=0


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group