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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Location: Lakeland and Anna Maria Island, FL
I'm sure the answer to this has been posted before but I couldn't find it I am not new to Hobie Mirage kayaks but very new to the AI. I am having a terrible time turning the rudder when I'm turning or moving fast. I've had the kayak out sans sail and amas with no problem What am I doing wrong????


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:43 pm 
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First thing is to make sure the rudder Down line is pulled in hard and cleated. The rudder has a counter-balance area which sits ahead of the hinge line when the rudder is fully down, and this area >reduces< tiller load if Down is tight, but >increases< tiller load if not.

You can also reduce tiller load by simply easing the mainsheet a few inches - try it and see if it helps.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:45 pm 
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If you are trying to turn down-wind, remember you also have to steer with the sail, by letting out sheet-line while turning.

If not this then any more info on when it happens?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Location: Lakeland and Anna Maria Island, FL
It will definitely take more practice before I can figure this out. I'm just so used to the Adventure rudder turning quite easily. The "down" is cleated so that isn't the problem. I'm sure I just don't know how to make the turns properly and am not letting out enough mainsheet. Thanks for the comments! The trip the end of this week will help me to figure it out.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:48 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Terry:
I have noticed on my TI that once in a while my rudder even though I pull it tight, the rudder is still not down completely, I typically raise then lower quickly to get it to seat better. The result of it being even a little loose is very hard steering.
I have also broken several rudder pins, and one sign of the rudder pin being partially damaged or half broken (with just the top or bottom broken or just hanging on) is very tight steering.
And lastly the boat grows and shrinks a lot in different temps, if the rudder steering lines are too tight, this makes steering quite a bit tighter.
I have those steering knobs on my handles that Hobie sells, not sure if they come with the boats now or if you still have to buy and install them yourself still.
Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:42 am 
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Hey Terry!

Everything that everyone has responded with so far is mostly what to look for, but, reading your original post, you wrote "when I'm turning or moving fast", then I would guess that you've been out sailing your AI in the nice, unusual for this area, heavy winds that we have had here with the recent cold front (wished I were out there with you!).
Because the AI has way too much (in my opinion) "weather helm" (wants to turn into the wind if you let the rudder loose), the AI tends to require a lot (too much) pressure on the tiller handle especially if you get "too close" to the wind (steer your AI too close to the direction the wind is coming from) and then try to steer out of it. In fact, with heavy wind, if you get too close to the wind, you will not be able to steer out of it if you do not keep enough forward speed and maybe not even then if the wind is strong enough.
Fortuneatly with the AI, you can just start peddling to increase forward speed while releasing the main sheet to let the sail out and then turn your way out of the clutches of the wind.
In real heavy wind like we just experienced here, it also really helps alot to reef your sail quite a bit (roll in the sail partially) as this both reduces the excessive weather helm and reduces the pressure the sail is putting on the rudder. Reefing is very impotatant in really heavy wind.

A past delayed business trip out of town rescheduled recently for this coming week is preventing me from going out to Pavillion with you folks this Thursday:{
Have a good time out there, relax, fish and enjoy what looks to be perfect weather.
Oh... and get up just before day break and look to the east for Comet ISON as it quite probably will be visible just above where the sun will soon rise especially towards the weekend... it might be spectacular, or more likely, just barely, briefly visable before the sun blinds you!

Take Care
Don

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:29 am 
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Location: Lakeland and Anna Maria Island, FL
Thanks to each of you for the ideas and tips. I believe that I've had the rudder locked all the way in the down position but I'm going to check to be certain when it's in the water. It definitely can go all the way down when it's on the trailer

While I am aware of how the AI rounds up into the wind due to my experiences in the Adventure, I had no idea of the problems of steering when too close to the wind. That really could be a big part of the tight rudder issue. I've yet to find my most comfortable point of sail, due in part to the flukey winds on my lake Guess I need to try her out one more time before the trip to PAV. Not being able to turn the AI was not fun, even with no other boats or obstacles in the lake. I'm sure it is blonde user error. Too bad I don't have a GoPro because it would be entertaining - especially the cussing.

Sorry you won't be joining us on this trip, Don. Hope to see you out there soon.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:52 am 
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I remember one rather dramatic attempt to tack across the wind out at Tiger Key. Rick Parks and I were headed back to Everglades City at the end of a camping trip, and the winds were about 25 mph on our nose as we left the key. I was amazed to find that as I tried to turn across the wind, that it was like hitting a wall. The AI just would not turn beyond a certain point, pedaling and all. Ultimately, I was literally pushed back to our launch spot on Tiger. It dawned on me (later rather than sooner), that I should furl the sail in part. Once I did that, I had no problem changing tack.

This incident does not shed any light on your problem, Terry, because I don't remember the tiller being hard to turn.

Keith

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:06 am 
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When I say the rudder handle was hard to turn, I mean extremely hard. I felt like I was going to break something. Now I am just so curious to figure out what is going on BEFORE we head out to Pavilion.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:17 pm 
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FYI, I posted this question for a friend who was experiencing the same thing with their new 2014 TI and I am not sure it had to do with the wind.

See: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=49513

I'll ask them if they ever got out again before it got cold here and ended the sailing season to see what their results were. Bob

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2013 Oasis w/ Sail
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Thanks for that link, Bob. Before even reading your post, I was experimenting with the kayak on the trailer and pulling on the down rudder line like I normally do out on the water. Every so often the rudder did NOT go all the way down. Here is hoping that this is my problem.

motobob wrote:
FYI, I posted this question for a friend who was experiencing the same thing with their new 2014 TI and I am not sure it had to do with the wind.

See: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=49513

I'll ask them if they ever got out again before it got cold here and ended the sailing season to see what their results were. Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:23 am 
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Make sure the up-line isn't cleated. If you have a newer (big rudder) AI, weather helm shouldn't be such a big problem as it used to be.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:14 am 
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I have the 2014 model and the cleating mechanism for the uline is a "Jam cleat." It isn't that close to that line t-handle so it's easy to see if the thing is cleated or not.

chrisj wrote:
Make sure the up-line isn't cleated. If you have a newer (big rudder) AI, weather helm shouldn't be such a big problem as it used to be.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:12 pm 
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The problem with being able to turn my rudder was definitely that the thing wasn't all the way down, even though I thought it was. Live and learn, even for this long time Mirage owner. Thanks for all of the advice!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Loose rudder steering lines make steering very lively. Tight steering lines make steering very stiff. Play around with them so they are as you want them.


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