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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Location: Jerrabomberra, New South Wales, Australia
Mine is worn too, not particularly phased about it though.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:08 am 
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I have carried out extensive investigation regarding the relationship between wear on the top bearing plate and the other components.

Please let us be 100% clear on this... The mast bearing plate (and the ring it is mounted in) IS NOT DESIGNED TO TAKE THE WEIGHT OF THE MAST. Even a cursory look would confirm that no engineer would design a system where a weight-bearing ring is only supported on one side. The bearing plate(s) are there solely to support the 24 delrin balls with HORIZONTAL loads.

As an aside, I wonder if this might have been an issue with those very few crossbars where the weld holding the ring was showing cracks....

So if your top bearing plate looks like this below, go straight to your Hobie dealer, as this is a symptom of a problem. Remember also, that the V2 mast receiver/v brace assembly cannot be adjusted by more than one or two milimetres (basically be distorting the components), unlike the earlier versions. The fix might need a new bottom half mast, or a longer pin in the bottom of the mast receiver.
Image

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:20 am 
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Location: High Point, NC
Some of the evident wear in the photo is caused by the movement of the mast when being furled/unfurled owing to the generous clearance designed into that opening. Mine shows a bit of this, but perhaps not quite this much. No doubt too much of this sort of thing could result in damage.

Of course, it's certainly true that the pin/base at the bottom of the mast receptacle is intended to carry the weight/load of the mast and sail.

The reason you often see differences in the mast bearing plate to furling drum clearance is due to drums not always affixed in exactly the same place, and the fact that these plastic hulls are not exactly precision pieces. The height of your TI's deck may be, and probably is, different that height of my TI's deck. As Tony said, the V-truss adjustment only affects mast base top height by distorting the otherwise natural position of the hull/components. It wasn't designed to correct terribly ill-fitting parts and pieces.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:40 am 
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The owner of that AI had stated that he had only used it a few times, so I therefore assumed this was a serious case of incorrect distance between furling drum and bottom pin, so the wear was much more than the odd scrape.

Yes Tom, the unfortunate thing is that some dealers did not seem to be aware of the existence of the V2 mast assembly, which is effectively a single unit once the two bolts through the crossbar are done up. This was a running change to AIs (and I believe OEM for TIs from the outset), and only the V1 assemblies can adjust the clearance via the turnbuckles.

Hopefully word will get out to all dealers so users are not cast aside with incorrect advice to "Adjust the turnbuckles" when the assembly is a V2.

I believe the Aussie dealers are now up to speed, and I assume those elsewhere will be soon, if not already.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:42 pm 
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Location: Western MA
So I am still somewhat confused here.

I have a 2012 Tandem Island. I am having the same issue with the furler drum resting on the bearing race ring. It causes considerable resistance and I have wear similar to what has been shown above. I think I have read through all of these posts but am still unsure. On my boat the hull is pushed outward on the bottom slightly by the V brace. It would seem that there should be a way to adjust the V brace to gain more clearance for the mast and reduce the pressure placed on the bottom of the hull by the V brace. Do I need to try to adjust the furler drum instead?

Thanks,
Adam

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2012 Tandem Island


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:11 pm 
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sologarth wrote:
So I am still somewhat confused here.

I have a 2012 Tandem Island. I am having the same issue with the furler drum resting on the bearing race ring. It causes considerable resistance and I have wear similar to what has been shown above. I think I have read through all of these posts but am still unsure. On my boat the hull is pushed outward on the bottom slightly by the V brace. It would seem that there should be a way to adjust the V brace to gain more clearance for the mast and reduce the pressure placed on the bottom of the hull by the V brace. Do I need to try to adjust the furler drum instead?

Thanks,
Adam

Adam, do not attempt to adjust the V-brace to move the furling drum higher (although your particular TI might already have too much tension on the v-brace causing hull distortion, caused by someone (the dealer?) erroneously trying to lessen the rubbing of the furling drum).

As I stated above, on the TI (and on V2 versions of the AI mast base), the mast receiver is bolted rigidly to the crossbar, so changing the length of the v-brace can only affect the depth of the mast receiver by distorting the assembly, which is NOT good.

You should take your TI to your dealer, and if they suggst increasing clearance of the furling drum by adjusting the v-brace, politely inform them that Matt Miller, David Ketterman (designer of the Miragdrive) and Steve Fields (CEO of Hobiecat Australasia) and others have all stated that adjusting the v-brace is not the solution (for more than a tiny amount of variation).

Correction is without doubt a warranty issue.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:28 pm 
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Alright thanks. Not sure what I will do here as when I spoke to the Hobie dealer he recommended adjusting the brace. I also believe I am outside my warranty. It's too bad that these issues aren't better understood and/or addressed by the dealer and factory. I'll have to check on that.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
sologarth wrote:
Alright thanks. Not sure what I will do here as when I spoke to the Hobie dealer he recommended adjusting the brace. I also believe I am outside my warranty. It's too bad that these issues aren't better understood and/or addressed by the dealer and factory. I'll have to check on that.

I would suggest that he check with head office as his information is absolutely definitely incorrect. Even if you are a bit outside your warranty, Hobie should address this the same as they do any other issue not caused by user misuse.

I would like to think that Hobie will issue a service bulletin to all dealers to finally kill off the myth that big adjustments can be made by changing the lengths of the v-braces. You there Matt?

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:50 am 
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I am having this same issue with the mast rubbing on the base. (2013 AI) It has now caused the furling drum to move up ever so slightly on the mast.

I brought my boat to my local dealer and filed a claim. Hobie warranty is telling the dealer to just build up the bottom "PIN plate" by stacking washers underneath it.

Does this sound correct to anyone that has had this same issue? Obviously, I have concerns that Hobie would want such a "DIY" fix to a key area of the boat rather than actually fixing or replacing the issue at hand.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:09 am 
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Vabeach2:
There are many things that can cause the mast to rub on the bearing plate, in my experience the culprit is not typically the adjustment of the V frame assembly, chances are if at one time it was adjusted OK (ie... as from the factory), and the V-braces have not been changed or adjusted to try and correct the problem (which I agree with Tony is totally the wrong thing to do (BTW Tony, I assume you meant Greg Ketterman (they are brothers)).
In my experience with TI's is the furling drum is not necessarily attached all that well to the carbon mast, in my experience just a slight bump on the drum while walking around with the mast can slide it up or down the mast (I've done this actually quite a few times, on all my TI's), which knocks of the spacing.
The second thing I have learned is that that aluminum plate that holds the delrin bearings is just aluminum, and can bend very easily. It can easily be bent by just putting the mast in or taking it out (I've bent mine more than once). When loading or unloading the mast it's best to never try to tilt the mast into the delrin bearings opening, you will bend it for sure. The best procedure is to shove and trap the bottom of the mast into that area just next to the mast and just in front of the crossbar, tilt the mast up vertical, then drop it straight into the pocket (never try to tilt it in thru the bearing chase, this is where the damage occurs). When removing the mast lift it straight up and out of the pocket, place it in that cubbie area, then tilt it down. If in the boat and tilting the mast in or out from inside the boat (like if your on the water), the best place to trap the mast bottom when tilting up is in front of and to the left or right of the mirage drive in that little corner on the inside deck, then once vertical the mast is easy to lift straight up and down so it can be dropped straight into the pocket. I highly recommend never trying to tilt the mast into the bearing plate, that's a for sure condition for bending the plate (even a small amount of bend and your pretty screwed). It takes very little force to bend the plate when your holding onto the mast from 3-4 ft away (leverage, basically your mast is a prybar at that point LOL))
Adding washers under the pin plate at the base of the mast holder is probably the safest way to fix a rubbing problem, if the furling drum has not shifted on the mast (70% of the time this is the most likely suspect), or the bearing plate is bent (20% of the time). About 10% of the time the fix would be to add the washers (unless someone really hosed everything up by trying to adjust the V braces in some weird way for no good reason).
If you don't believe me about that plate just grab that plate at the front and pull up, it bends easily, or accidentally step on it, it bends down (done that too DAH). I periodically check mine and bend it back into its correct position with my fingers if it is out.
On all three TI masts I have owned the furling drum slides easily up and down with just a light tap or bump. I make it a point when I get a new mast to mark the correct (factory) position of the drum on the mast with paint or something so I can always get it back to that position, if I do accidentally bump it (usually just a light tap with a 2x4 fixes it). On every mast I have had, the epoxy holding the furling drum on has turned white (this means the epoxy has obsorbed water and has failed). My latest mast is 2012 model year, I have no clue if Hobie has corrected the glue problem or not (not my problem LOL), but it sure doesn't hurt to mark it's position, and keep an eye on it.

So in conclusion (from my mind and personal experience anyway) if I had to guess, 95% of the mast rubbing problems have nothing whatsoever to do with the V-braces, yet 99% of the time everyone seems to try to want to fix the problem by trying to adjust the V-braces, I agree with Tony, that's the wrong thing to try and adjust (those braces don't go out of adjustment on their own all by themselves), and are not likely the root cause of the problem most of the time.
My bearing plate looks just like the one pictured, I know that my furling drum has slipped a little (again), and also know my bearing plate is bent (again).
All just my opinions
Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:35 am 
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Bob, I appreciate the response. Makes me feel much better about the issue! My dealer went ahead and told me that they fixed the issue (I believe adding washers to the base plate.) I pick up my baby tomorrow and will let everyone know how it looks/works.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:22 pm 
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The dealer added washers up underneath the baseplate. Looks to be about 3 washers. The furling drum is now about 1 millimeter or less above the receiver base. (Still looks like it would rub with any bend/high winds). My other AI furling drum ( along with the display model at the dealer) sit up about 4 millimeters above the base.

I am nervous with this "fix" because now I will always have water pooled under the receiver base pin. I no longer have the ability to syphen and squeegee that water out.

Am I wrong to be upset with this "fix" on a 8 month old boat?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Nope.

Tried another mast in there? Is it the mast receiver that is 100% of the problem?


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