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 Post subject: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 11:08 am
Posts: 67
Location: Rochester NY
I would like a way to secure the TI when I am fishing, I noticed in the catalog there is a trolley system for the anchor, is anyone using that? It would be nice to raise and lower the anchor from the seat.


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1436
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
I copied an idea I saw on here some time ago.. rather than fitting an anchor trolley.

The anchor line (well the first 30 feet) is tied off at the front crossbar, passing through a stainless steel O-ring attached to the bow fitting.
Another O-ring is then attached to the line >outside< the bow fitting, so it is free to run on the anchor line. This O-ring has a retrieve line also tied off on the cross member.

So now, when retrieving the anchor, I pull on the retrieve line from the front cockpit seat, and pull the anchor up over the front cross member.

The end of the line has a loop with a ferrule in it, so I can connect it to more line using a D-shackle. I carry another 75 feet of line always, but for offshore expedition trips I add a further 150 feet (each length has a ferrule with D-shackle). If 255 feet of anchor line isn't enough I shouldn't be anchoring there!

The bottom end of my anchor rig has 6 feet of chain, then 10 feet of heavy line, shackled to a 3# Cooper plastic anchor (the chain is separated from the anchor so its weight will not tilt the anchor sideways and reduce its ability to dig its point in).

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1204
Location: sarasota,fl
mrasmussen:
Here is a pic of my anchor system, it lives suspended behind the boat on the trailer and is never removed.
Image

I use the bungy cord on the back of the boat to secure the anchor during transport. We are scuba divers and use the anchor a lot, and have to have a very secure anchor that works well on sandy bottoms (like in the keys). This guardian g7 4 lb anchor that works well for us. The anchor is totally automatic, I just tie a loop knot to the rear AKA bar to secure it, The toilet paper roll holder on the motor mount is just a convienent way to store 150 ft of anchor line, without the spool the anchor line completely fills the cockpit of the boat. The 3/4 inch sq alum tubing I got at Lowes, nothing fancy, but it has worked flawlessly for over three years now, and we are out every weekend all year round.
They told me I had to have 15 ft of heavy chain rode on the anchor in order for it to work, I don't want any heavy chain anywhere near my plastic boat. The anchor works fine without any rode chain, as scuba divers we always follow the anchor line down to the bottom and back up, then hang onto the line for our decompression stops. So everytime I go down I double check the anchor, and it always sets with no issues, however it does have to be at a slightly shallower angle than it would with 40 lbs of chain on it.
Hope this helps.
PS we tried all combinations of any grapple anchors and none of them worked for us (even multiple anchors). Currently we have this one main anchor and a small grapple anchor with 50 ft of line for when we are parked just off shore around other power boats at sand bars and beaches (they frown on us bumping into them for some reason).


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:11 pm
Posts: 50
mrasmussen,

Fusioneng anchor system is admirable...but for my tastes it is way too complex...unless you want to anchor your aircraft carrier. Most of us AI and TI owners bought the boats for its simple easy to set up characteristics. I live in the Tampa Bay area and I originally tried using a grapnel anchor. The TI just weighs too much for these and so I searched high and low for an easy non-metallic anchor (don't want to scratch the crap out of my TI) that would hold the TI through thick and thin. I have found Cooper Anchors (out of Australia) to be the best. They have several sizes and I bought the version that would fit in a twist/stow hatch. However, I found I like to store it in the front storage bin. I have approximately 100' of line...which allows me a 7 to 1 scope in 14' of water...more with less scope. I never anchor in anything really deeper than that. I don't use chain as I don't want to scratch my TI and add too much weight. However, I have found the Cooper anchor to hold the TI very well in varying types of bottom....even in a 35 mph wind. I fish of my TI often but I don't have an anchor trolley (perhaps I should get one). I sit in the rear seat and run the anchor line through one of the handles (which is on very secure) and simply tie an easy knot when I pay out sufficient scope. In this manner, the aft end of the TI will be facing into the wind or current (whichever is stronger). It is very easy to pull in the anchor in this manner. I normally just lay the anchor and line in the storage area behind the rear seat.


Last edited by MikeSail on Wed May 28, 2014 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1204
Location: sarasota,fl
I've seen the cooper anchors and they are also very nice. I also have 100 ft of 3/8 line and another 50 I store in the hatch. I found without my paper towel holder spooler, 100 ft of line fills the rear area.
My anchor just lives suspended by the boat all the time and has never been removed. When we are diving I might put that anchor up and down ten times in a day, to each his own, I just find it easier not to have too mess with it ever.
Bob


Last edited by fusioneng on Wed May 28, 2014 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:20 pm
Posts: 273
Location: London UK
MikeSail wrote:
mrasmussen,

Fusioneng anchor system is admirable...but for my tastes it is way too complex...unless you want to anchor your aircraft carrier. Most of us AI and TI owners bought the boats for its simple easy to set up characteristics. I live in the Tampa Bay area and I originally tried using a grapnel anchor. The TI just weighs too much for these and so I searched high and low for an easy non-metallic anchor (don't want to scratch the crap out of my TI) that would hold the TI through thick and thin. I have found Cooper Anchors (out of Australia) to be the best. They have several sizes and I bought the version that would fit in a twist/stow hatch. However, I found I like to store it in the front storage bin. I have approximately 100' of line...which allows me a 7 to 1 scope in 33' of water. I never anchor in anything deeper than that. I don't use chain as I don't want to scratch my TI and add too much weight. However, I have found the Cooper anchor to hold the TI very well in varying types of bottom....even in a 35 mph wind. I fish of my TI often but I don't have an anchor trolley (perhaps I should get one). I sit in the rear seat and run the anchor line through one of the handles (which is on very secure) and simply tie an easy knot when I pay out sufficient scope. In this manner, the aft end of the TI will be facing into the wind or current (whichever is stronger). It is very easy to pull in the anchor in this manner. I normally just lay the anchor and line in the storage area behind the rear seat.


I'm afraid that my experience of the cooper blue is not so great where we sail in a sand bottom harbour. its ok on the revo but the T1 needs something bigger IMHO

Yes the Hobie anchor trolley is a good idea running to the rear from the back seat


CC

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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1436
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Chopcat,
I experimented with my Cooper anchor, and discovered that for it to work best in sand, it is important to avoid disturbing its balance. It is a lightweight anchor, with lead placed specifically to help its point dig into the sand.

Some people have misunderstood Cooper's instructions applicable only to anchoring in reef areas, and attach chain to the head of the anchor, supplemented by a zip-tie at the end of the shank. The extra weight causes the anchor to lie on the seabed sideways, and while in reefy areas, the anchor will soon grab hold of something, but on a sandy surface, the anchor will tend to slide rather than dig its point in.

So I attach about 10 feet of line to the shank of the anchor, and depending on conditions. then add 6 feet of chain and then 75 and/or 150 feet of anchor line.

The important thing though, is that with no chain, I have personally tested this anchor in sand, and watched it dig in beautifully in shallow water, to the point where my 350+ pound fatarse body could lean back on a 45 degree angle without the anchor budging (I gave up at that point, not the anchor).

The secret is to allow the Cooper anchor's design to do its job, rather than "killing it with kindness" by adding weight in the wrong place.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:33 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Not being into fishing I only carry the Cooper for an emergency which hasn't arisen.
But before one does, I'll put some line between the anchor and chain so it will hold on sand.

Thanks for the tip Tony.

Where would we be without this forum?
Brian in South Australia.


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1436
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Good to hear Brian. While it is traditional to add chain directly to the anchor, in order to lower the pulling angle, the very light weight of the plastic Cooper anchor can easily be overwhelmed by the weight of the chain. By separating the chain by even just a few feet, you remove this effect, but still ensure that the pulling angle is as low as possible. In fact I store my Cooper with the thicker line, swivel and shackle at the end already attached, so if necessary the chain and/or more line is attached to the end of this.

Of course, with moderate anchor line alone (my "lunchtime" standard line is about 30 feet long and only 6mm diameter), the anchor digs in quite well by itself into a sandy bottom, and if the depth is no more than about 6 feet, will take a lot to dislodge. I only add chain and more line if the water is deeper and/or conditions are rough.

It is not a bad idea to experiment with your ground tackle in various wind and tide situations so that you gain confidence in being able to stay put if you really need to.

Another truly great jigger to add to your ground tackle bag (I keep all mine in a drybag behind my seat within easy reach, as the 1.5kg blue Cooper is a bit of a squeeze through an 8 inch hatch, and I would bet even harder to extract if in an emergency situation), is a "Bluescrew". The picture of them in use (thanks stringy) explains it best. These inexpensive devices can also be used to keep a tent etc. from blowing away.
Image
Image

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:11 pm
Posts: 50
Tony,
no chain on my cooper and it digs in the sand and mud well. However, if I was in a dire situation I would want some weight on the scope. Good point about chain directly added to the cooper would effect its designed intent. I am considering keeping a kettle type weight that you could easily secure to the scope at any distance from the anchor or could be slid down the scope once the cooper has set. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1204
Location: sarasota,fl
The only issue I have with my guardian g4 anchor is if I drop the anchor too slowly and the boat is still moving the anchor tends to plane on the surface (like your pulling a skier).
A quick tug and release of the line fixes that and the anchor sinks down and buries itself.
I could probably wrap a 2 lb lead weight bag around the line or shank of the anchor to fix that if I realy cared to fix it, but it's only happened twice to me out of the two to three hundred times I've deployed the anchor so I probably won't do anything. I'm perfectly happy with what I have and it holds firm in all the bottom conditions we have encountered in so fl and the keys. Plus once setup on the boat initially there is nothing to do, just drop and raise it as needed (totally automatic), I just make sure to rinse the anchor and rope off when I wash down the boat to get the salt off. Like I said earlier as divers and spear fishers we always dive down and check the anchor first and it has never failed us. Where we almost never had any success with the grapnel anchors even when putting two down. I have lost a couple grapnel anchors where they would get hung up in rocks and we had to cut the line.
My only regret is listening to the guy at west marine and using huge 3/8 rope where 100 ft completely fills the passenger compartment, 1/4 or 5/16 line would have worked fine.
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
MikeSail wrote:
Tony,
no chain on my cooper and it digs in the sand and mud well. However, if I was in a dire situation I would want some weight on the scope. Good point about chain directly added to the cooper would effect its designed intent. I am considering keeping a kettle type weight that you could easily secure to the scope at any distance from the anchor or could be slid down the scope once the cooper has set. Thoughts?

I've never tried that Mike, as I am happy to add the chain up the line a little. I have heard of the kettle weight idea, and that seems to be a good alternative.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 1948
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
tonystott wrote:
While it is traditional to add chain directly to the anchor, in order to lower the pulling angle, the very light weight of the plastic Cooper anchor can easily be overwhelmed by the weight of the chain. By separating the chain by even just a few feet, you remove this effect, but still ensure that the pulling angle is as low as possible.

Tony's point is a good one. Here is a pic Cooper anchors sent me when I enquired about what chain to use with their anchor:
Image
I have both the 230g red Cooper and the 1kg blue (or pink) Cooper anchors. In shallow water with firm sand both should hold the TI. Chain is only really needed when anchoring in deep water. In recent testing I did it is important not to weight the 230g red anchor shank with even a shackle. I had trouble with it holding (I was pedaling backwards in testing). Removing the shackle solved the problem and the TI was stopped dead when the red anchor bit in. I couldn't pedal backwards against it.
Regarding anchor trolleys I've never wanted to add more lines to the AI/TI. I use a simple nylon fairlead mounted to the bow
Image
Image
Sitting out on the haka it's easy to locate the line into the fairlead
Image

then tie it back to the crossbar
Image

A quick flick removes it
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1856
Location: South Florida
Thanks for the well illustrated post, Stringy.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: TI anchor system
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:38 pm
Posts: 17
These are very nice inspirations; very much appreciated.
But in my Outback I love my anchor trolley system, and I would like to install the same system on the TI. Is there any drawback to do so at one of the AMAs? Or is the hull installation the only one that is strongly recommended?


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