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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:11 pm 
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So I took out the TI today with another person, and both of us were sitting in a pool of water for most of the trip. I started looking on these boards for a solutions. One solution seems to be to raise the seat using a foam mix. Another solution is getting a captains chair.

What are most of you guys doing? I wouldn't think most of you are just sitting in the water for the entire trip?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:16 am 
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The simplest solution is to get a pair of waterproof pants.

Of the skipper seat mods I really like Slaughters removable model which can be used as a camp seat:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=48290&p=216488
It's difficult to raise the original Hobie seats as they are fixed to the seat well to stop sliding.
Another alternative to what you have mentioned is this but it requires replacing the Hobie seats with aftermarket 4 strap models:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=51971


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:42 am 
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Sailing as far north as you are, Stringy's suggestion of dry pants would be a great addition, e.g., http://www.nrs.com/product/25051/kokatat-hydrus-3l-tempest-dry-pants-with-socks

Elevating the seat by various means, again as Stringy suggested, is a possibility. There are better, more expensive seats than the Hobie original. Tonystott has asked elsewhere if you have taken the drain plugs out of the drains below the seat. Occasionally, a big wave washes over and I am momentarily setting in water, but it drains rapidly. I never think of myself setting in a pool of water. Both my wife and I use the standard Hobie seat. We do use the Hobie "i-Comfort" inflatable cushion. It raises you up a bit and is very comfortable. We even take the i-Comfort cushion to use at stadium events.

When the weather is cool enough down here (Nov-May,) I love the Kokatat Hydrus dry pants with integral socks. Usually I wear a pair of shorts or cargo pants under them. When I get to shore, I pull the Hydrus pants off, put on some sneakers and I'm ready to go.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:45 am 
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Location: Rochester NY
I like the dry pants idea, I'll pick a pair up.

I do want to do something about the water I am sitting in, I will leave the drain plugs off today and see what happens. I sailed yesterday with them fully plugged so the water that did get in the boat wasn't going to drain. It sounds like leaving them off is the way to go.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:57 am 
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stringy wrote:
The simplest solution is to get a pair of waterproof pants.

Of the skipper seat mods I really like Slaughters removable model which can be used as a camp seat:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=48290&p=216488
It's difficult to raise the original Hobie seats as they are fixed to the seat well to stop sliding.
Another alternative to what you have mentioned is this but it requires replacing the Hobie seats with aftermarket 4 strap models:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=51971


Slaughter's skipper seat would be perfect, problem is, it doesn't seem easy to build, plus I don't have any tools that could get the job done.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:23 am 
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Location: High Point, NC
With the plugs out, you may find that the natural water level on the outside of the boat is going to be above your seat bottom. This is nearly always the case in the AI, not quite in the TI - depends on how much weight you put in the boat.

I never run with the plugs in - you don't want to swamp the boat. With the plugs out, any introduced water will always self bail at least to the level of the water outside the hull. In colder weather, I wear breathable wader bottoms.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I think the TI is a little drier in the seat area because the bottom of the seats are usually above the waterline, so they do drain eventually but I also got tired of sitting in water most of the time. My thought is I don't really want to spend a great deal of money on new seats, some of those suckers are over $200 bucks (ouch). Actually I'm pretty comfortable in the standard Hobie seat as long as it is upright, but at least on mine the seat straps slip all the time and it drives me nuts. I very seldom need to adjust my seat so I ended up just tying a piece of paracord so it can only slip back so far then the paracord pulls tight, this actually works ok.
I'm not sure there is a way to keep the inside of the seat area dry because of splashing and water entering from just about anyplace it desires.
What I ended up doing is just elevating myself up about 1 1/2 inches in the seat, and the problem is solved. How you do it doesn't really matter. I have heard that the I-comfort pad from Hobie works well. I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple and inexpensive.
What I came up with was I cut up an old pool mattress, though any type of foam or seat cushion should work (something that will hold up in water of course). The whole trick to it is how do you attach it to the seat easily and reliably. What I used is just a common laundry bag (actually mine is a Lobster catch bag that I picked up at the Scuba shop (most fishing supply also sell catch bags). Basically I just cut the seat cushion so it roughly resembles the shape of the seat bottom, then slid the foam and the seat bottom into the laundry bag and just cinched it shut at the back. I did it a couple yrs ago now and it's been in the boat ever since with no issues of any kind. I am in my TI for many hours most weekends and before adding the padding I would get uncomfortable quickly from the hard standard seat bottom, this little extra padding makes all the difference in the world, and best yet if keeps my butt above the water level in the seat area so my bum stays dry.
Here is a pic of the old pool mattress after I cut it roughly to shape, and the Lobster (Laundry/catch) bag. An added benefit is the bag is a little taller than the seat so I fold it inside out on the bottom and store all my charts in there.
Image

Raising the seat only 1 1/2 inches worked out quite nice, my center of gravity is still very low in the boat, and I don't hit my head on the sail at all.

If you search for Kayak/canoe cushion you will find hundreds to choose from if you don't want to make one.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... gynxn14_pp

The whole trick is they are inexpensive (usually under $30 bucks), and super easy to install, just zip them into the laundry bag along with the seat bottom, and you never have to fuss with it again. Just that little extra height makes all the difference in the world. I don't worry about drainage, the water finds it own way out thru the mesh of the bag.

Hope this helps
Bob
Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Yep, it's really close. All it takes is just an inch or so and most of the time you can get rid of the pool.

These boats are going to take on water, but you'd like the seat bottom just high enough to let it drain, but not so high that you compromise the low center of gravity that lets them do so many things so well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Not many people are in favor of the foam bottom? Maybe it is easier just buying the I-cushion, maybe I'll try that first.

Also, I have the trampolines, and sitting on them is similar to sitting in the seat, your butt is wet. I am thinking about trying to build the bench (out of wood?) seating on the amas.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
We've had the i-cushions for years and while they are very comfortable they do little to prevent wet butt, even when used as a double cushion on top of the original seat pad.
You have to raise the seat higher. Foam pads under the seat will work but as long as the seat is still fixed by the pegs it will be too low I would think.
Bob are you using the pegs with your foam padding?
Foam pads on top of the seat work but then the seat back is lower and gives less support.
The haka are a great solution for staying dry when sailing but at some stage you will have to return to the seat for pedalling. Having a raised seat is more comfortable for pedalling in our experience.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Stringy:
It was just dumb luck that we had that old latex foam dipped in PVC (or latex) rubber mattress for our pool and it was starting to look ratty. New I think they are pretty expensive (over $150 bucks). We like it so much I just bought my wife a new one, then I was free to do as I please with the old one, so I cut it up for my TI seat pads. If you look at the pic you will see the foam goes under the seat and stops about an inch short of the pegs. This is enough to still get the pegs into the regular sockets with no issues. The whole key here is the super simple way to hold everything together, just slip it all into the bag and cinch it shut, this holds everything together neatly. The seat acts no differently from the standard except its a little softer and raises you up about an inch and a half.
To give you an idea of the firmness to look for, if I press my thumb on one side and my forefinger on the othe a much as if can squeeze in squeezes in no more than 1/4 inch so it's pretty firm. Of course it's designed for pool use so it's pretty darn durable.
Like I said it was just dumb luck that I stumbled on the perfect solution ( for me) first try, and have been using it now for a couple years every weekend. Heck I stay so dry now on calme days I just wear my street cloths and leave my wallet and keys in my pockets. I'm sure if someone look around they can adapt a kayak or stadium seat with similar construction into a simple pad, I just used scissors to cut mine to the right shape.
Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:36 am 
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Thanks Bob. Some good info there.
I used a similar mesh bag to add foam under the seat in the post I linked to above.
The AI requires thicker padding to keep out of the puddle.
I wonder what the thickest padding would be you could add under the seat and still use the seat pegs?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:38 am 
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Stringy:
I'm thinking the 1 1/2 inch pad I currently have is about max, if you still want to use the factory seat and seat pegs. I think one important part of the design is the curvature at the back of the pad needs to follow the original curve of the stock seat so the scupper holes remain exposed.
If someone needs to elevate even higher there is nothing preventing adding a second pad above the seat then cinching everything together inside th mesh bag. Actually I think this would be a perfect application for the I-comfort inflatable pad. When it's calm there is no need to inflate it much, but when it gets rougher and you need more elevation, you simply inflate it higher, with everything contained in the handy mesh bag it still remains one nice compact package. This still remains very simple and durable and because the original seat pegs are still used, the package shouldn't slide around on you. I have a feeling though going more than an inch or so thick with the upper mat ( something like a cut up yoga mat), on top of the 1 1/2 thick lower mat, then the original 3/4 original seat pad ( about 3 1/2 inches total) I have a feeling at least in my case I would be hitting my head on the sail, and my center of gravity would now be too high, as well as with the original seat back still at its original height you would loose the nice lumbar support. With all these complications, I think you might be better off just buying a complete aftermarket seat and retro fitting it into the AI. So it appears my setup only applies on a TI.

Personally I feel if I were any higher than I currently have my seat it would mess up the angle of my legs against the pedals making it uncomfortable to pedal my TI. That's just an observation on my part seeing these guys with the skipper seats raised 6 inches higher than the standard seat. But that's just my opinion, and at my current sitting height my head barely clears the sail, and just like Tom the sail clips my hats off once in a while ( haven't you noticed in toms videos he always has a different hat on, so I suspect we both go thru a lot of hats (lol).
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:37 am 
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With my skipper seat in the front of my TI, and being 6 foot three, the first thing I do when I buy more baseball caps at the op shop is cut the top buttons off! It only happens when I am going to windward with the full sail in tight, that I have to physically lift the foot of the sail past my head, and if I forget, the cap gets whisked off. I long ago dispensed with conventional lanyards, and buy electricsl leads with crocodile clips at each end in packets of 12, so I never run out.

The hugely comfy seat is all worth it when I get a day like yesterday where the promised 23 knot wind failed to show up, so I pedalled for over 6 hours straight, up a local river and back.. BTW Bob, I find sitting almost level with the pedals is just fine. I guess you just get used to what you have.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:47 pm 
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I spose nothing is perfect, waterproof pants, foam inserts, skipper seats etc all have their little issues. I am always reluctant to add to the forum a modification that I have made, until I've fully tested it over a full season. But I did with the skipper seat mod because I was pretty confident that the issues would be minimal. First thing is that it was difficult to make. And shaping the stainless steel frame was probably a fluke. Unless you do a lot of pipe bending, it's very easy to bend right and up, when you really should have bent left and down. :roll: I was also lucky to have access to scrap stainless so the cost was kept low. It wasn't so much the getting wet that annoyed me, it was more the sore arse. After a long trip I'd get a sciatic nerve pain that would last about a week. The comfort issue for me has been well a truly fixed. The remaining issue, as Tony said, is that you do sit a few inches higher and need to keep a stock of disposable hats :lol:

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