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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:34 pm 
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Just bought a demo TI and noticed today when sailing and controlling from the rear seat that the line loves to get caught in the front cam making it hard to let the sail out. I am thinking that adding another riser to the rear cross bar cam cleat may help but I am horrible at mechanical processes. Before I start doing stuff has anyone had this issue and if so what did they do to alleviate the issue? Any help is much appreciated.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:35 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Big:
Sometimes picture help explain problems better. Correct me if I'm wrong here. On the TI can be sailed from either the front seat or the back seat. There is a sail control cleat in both the front and rear seats. When sailing in the back seat most people pull the sail control line thru so there is only six inches or so sticking out the front cleat, then lock the front cleat down and operate the sail from the back position. Every thing works fine until it's time to furl the sail in. Since there is only one cleat for the furler only in front, it's hard to reach from the back. What most do is take the excess line from the back control line and tie it to the end of the furling line with a figure 8 knot. This way you can furl the sail from the back seat. However it can be challenging to unclear the furler cleat from the back seat. Does this discribe your conditions.
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:12 am 
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Bob, you are spot on. Confused about locking the front cleat with the line in it but just had a moment of clarity in that I may Just skip the front cleat and run the line straight to the back cleat when I want to control the lines from back there. I think that makes sense, lol.

Jason

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:41 am 
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Bigkidneys wrote:
Bob, you are spot on. Confused about locking the front cleat with the line in it but just had a moment of clarity in that I may Just skip the front cleat and run the line straight to the back cleat when I want to control the lines from back there. I think that makes sense, lol.

Jason



Jason,

Welcome to the TI. Hope you enjoy it. I just wanted to make sure you understood what Bob said. You responded that you can skip the front and run the line straight to the back cleat. You should not unthread it from front cleat and take that end to the rear seat. Perhaps I mistakenly thought that is what you meant.

While still in front seat, tie a knot in end of sheet so line cannot slip all the way through the cleat accidentally. Then drop the line on the deck, leaving it threaded as it was in that cleat's fairlead. Go to the back seat. Take the other end of the line, which is in the rear aka cleat, and pull all 20 feet of line toward you (without unthreading any thing). So you sail from the back using the other end of the line than you use in the front. For ease in furling, tie the end of furling line to end of sheet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Yeah, I am confused now, lol. Anyone Have A Picture Handy Of their setup?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:26 pm 
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I'll try to clarify.
1. Tie a simple knot in the end of the black mainsheet emerging from the cleat to your right in front of the front seat.
2. Tie a simple knot in the other end of the black mainsheet emerging from the cleat to your right behind the front seat. (simple knots tend to tighten until they are impossible to undo, but the only time you will need to remove them is in replacing a worn mainsheet well down the track, and at that point, cutting off the very end of the mainsheet will be no big deal).
3. Leaving the front mainsheet out of the cleat, pull the rear mainsheet out as far as you can.
4. Go back to the front, and pull an inch or two of mainsheet out and put the line in the jaws of the cleat (this is just to grip the line properly rather than relying on the knot to stop the line going through the cleat).
4. Tie the end of the rear mainsheet (which is now very long) to the end of the furling line. I use a figure eight knot which grips the mainsheet behind its knot, but is easy to undo when packing up later)

You can now control the mainsheet from the rear seat, and also furl the sail as required by pulling on the other end of it. You will of course need to lift the furling line quite high to clear the jaws of its cleat while doing so.

I hope this clarifies what Bob and Puget said!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Does this picture help?

Image

Personally, it just makes me want to go sailing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Pretty sure I am on the same page as you guys but just don't understand how tying knots in the main sheet will keep the line from bring pulled through the actual front cleat when pulling from the rear. I'll take a couple of pictures of the issue once I get home this afternoon.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:40 pm 
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There are several ways to do this. My way isn't necessarily the best, but may be the easiest. Maybe.

It occurred to me that the sheets have to pass by the forward seat on the way to the aft seat. So I got rid of the "dual controls" and simply rigged the system to accommodate the aft seat. I have one and only one camcleat, and that is for the furling line and it is mounted to the forward aka bar - the same one previously used for the main sheet cleating.

The main sheet runs out further to an open nylon block fastened to the underside of the forward aka center bar. From there it, and the furling line, run past the forward seat and on back to the aft seat. There is a standard horn cleat located on starboard next to both the forward and aft seats.

This allows you to operate the boat from either seat. Cleating the mainsheet is done right there next to either seat with a flip around the horn cleat. The furling line can be uncleated from either seat by simply flipping the furling line upward.

Again, just my way of doing it. It may or may not be the best for you but it's something else to consider.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Bigkidneys wrote:
Pretty sure I am on the same page as you guys but just don't understand how tying knots in the main sheet will keep the line from bring pulled through the actual front cleat when pulling from the rear. I'll take a couple of pictures of the issue once I get home this afternoon.

You do realise that the mainsheet is one very long piece, don't you? So without knots at each end, if you pull the back end, the rope will pull (forwards) through the front cleat, through the turning block on the right side in front of the front crossbar, through the fasirlead midships on the right of the hull, through the turning block on the right side of the rear of the hull, through the block attached to the deck behind the rear 8 inch hatch, through the block attached to the rear of the saili, back through the rear deck block, through the second turning block on the right side on the rear of the hull, forward through the turning block midships on the right of the hull, and up through the cleat on the rear crossbar. At this point, you will have removed the blck mainsheet from your TI.

So the knot at either end prevents you unravelling the mainsheet. Does this help?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:06 pm 
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I understand the reasons for knots, just that they don't apply to my issue which I likely am not explaining correctly. Now that I've went over the specific parts of the cam cleats I can better explain. I have the main sheet run through both front and rear cam cleats. When I pull on the sheet to uncleat from the rear, the main sheet will stay cleated in the front and causes more friction than normal when pulling compared to my other boats. It's to the point that it's fraying the main sheet considerably. Maybe adding a different block will make it easier to pull from the rear? Sorry for all this confusion guys. Been a couple years since I last sailed and just don't remember having this hard a time sailing from a spot further back. I was assuming I could forgo the front cam cleat all together and run the line straight from the front block to the rear cam to alleviate the issue.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Sounds like he's running the front sheet-line through the front AND through the rear cleat

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:07 pm 
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KayakingBob wrote:
Sounds like he's running the front sheet-line through the front AND through the rear cleat


That's exactly what's happening. That's how I received it and figured it was normal. So just run through front or back depending on where I plan to sail from and not both? If so it makes complete sense.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:38 pm 
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OK, here is another way of looking at it. When you pull on the end of the mainsheet from the rear seat, the mainsheet should pass from a midships turning block up to the cleat on the rear crossbar.

When you pull on the end of the mainsheet from the front seat, the mainsheet should pass from a turning block up to the cleat on the front crossbar.

The mainsheet should never pass between the two cleats, ever.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Gotcha. That explains it. It was rigged wrong when I got it this past weekend and didn't realize it because I've been out of it for a couple years. Seemed way too hard and the mechanics just didn't make sense. Now it does! Thanks for everyone's help.

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