The Roller is back

Hi guys its been a while, I hope everyone is well. So where have I been the last few years? Well I went from small rigid inflatable to AI then the big mistake I jumped up to a brand new all singing and dancing 17ft glass boat which tbh I simply never enjoyed and oh boy what a money pit!

I've still got the little rigid inflatable, but you've got it im going back to another AI. I love this yak and I'll love another now that I've moved to Hervey Bay QLD. The simplicity of the AI suits me and i just love the sailing. The only trouble is I've got to wait now until December (that will really mean January at the earliest) for the new model

Cheers

Roller

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Every day is an Adventure Island day

This seems to be a recurring theme with Hobies as the realization that the "new normal" of economics is that inflation is leaving a diminished amount of discretionary income left for recreation.
It will be intersting to see Hobie grow if they can capitalize on this recreational niche kind of like how Harley Davidson sells a life style rather then a mode of transportation.
Welcome back and have fun making memories when your new AI arrives because the truth is, they are a lot of fun in creating an adventure.

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That would be actually be pretty cool if they could propel their brand recognition and sell the Hobie lifestyle similar to Harley. Most shopping malls have Harley brand aftermarket stores (retail franchise).
My wife works for a franchise where they have shops in key market areas like Key West and St Armonds circle (Florida). We know all the demographics of these areas very well. As an example key west is a major cruise port with some days 6-8 thousand people roaming around Mallory square from all over the world (my wifes store is just off Mallory square). Their not likely to buy a kayak while on a cruise vacation, but Hobie gear and possibly Hobie TI and kayak and SUP rentals operating out of the back would do well. Just having Hobie islands kayaks, and SUP's roaming around in front of Mallory square every night would produce more sales for Hobie than they would know what to do with. Basically cruise ship passengers would rent, fall in love, then go home and want to have one of their own.
I know some of the dealers down there (the keys), and they have almost zero interest in the island line ( a really hard sell for them), and only marginal interest in their kayak lines.
Having a cruise shore excursion out of key west revolving around Hobies would be huge for them.
These Hobie (corporate) shops would not be stepping on the existing dealers and dealer networks, they would actually bring more brand awareness and send people to these shops and dealers when they get back home.
Just some thoughts
Bob

Actually I know of nobody who would invest millions into setting up exclusive Hobie shops in key cruise and vacation destination areas near world famous beaches ( ie.. Key West (Duval st), Siesta Key Beach (#1 in the world), St Armonds Circle (which is the #2 retail area right behind Rodeo drive), Cozumel, Nassau, etc), all major vacation areas right on the water. All the local dealers currently sell as their main lines 'other brands' of kayaks and fishing equipment as their mainstay, and also sell Hobies. The vast majority of kayak rentals in all these areas are all on the cheapest POS paddle kayaks on the market. So this would probably need to be a Hobie owned affair. None of these areas are cheap by any standards, rental space is uber expensive (over $10k per month even for a small shop), and just getting on the Cruise ships qualified excursion lists costs a large fortune, let alone the cost and maint of these very expensive boats. But boy when these vacationers go back home, in love with the Hobies (especially the TI which is their crown jewel), what do you think they are going to want to buy......
I'm not about to invest $5 million of my money to setup shop in all these key destinations so Hobie can generate another $100 million in global sales (thru brand recognition), so it has to be a corporate Hobie funded affair (other companies do exactly the same thing). I have a feeling all your global dealers would love the lines of anxious people who fell in love with your stuff while on vacation all of a sudden coming into their shops, so I'm sure they would all be on board. ( how else are you going to sell a TI or SUP's in a place like Minneapolis Minnesota (LOL))
Matt have your marketing guys give me a call, I'll set it all up for you ( LOL, just kidding)
Bob

Every time we cruise we rent a Hobie wave. Last time i think it was like 45 an hour. I would love to rent a TI but i am in NE now and no real place to rent.

Back to your glass hobie vrs the island. I have never sailed a TI but i have owned a few sun fish and a few hobie cats and the cats are just crazy fast. I just dont live close enough to the ocean to justify. Only thing that i didnt like was the cats were not good if you only had a few hours to play. Too much setup and teardown. What we really need to figure out is how to put a peddle drive to a glass cat... Bob..

Defy:
If I had an h16 I would definitely have a mirage drive mounted on it. I helped a guy work out the details a couple yrs ago on this forum but I'm pretty sure he never built it. I fugured out a long time ago almost nobody does anything to modify their boats, a lot of people talk about it but nobody ever does anything beyond adding a cheeta motor mount and an emergency outboard or trolling motor.
If I had an h16 I would have it retro fitted with a swing down mirage drive (about a hundred bucks in materials plus the cost of the mirage, (still cheaper than a good outboard or evolve, most if us have extra mirage drives laying around anyway).
The next thing I would add would be a 40 sq ft furl able wing jib based on the eppler 420 airfoil, this would make the h16 scream especially upwind and downwind (you could easily point 10 deg off the wind). I see no reason you couldn't do better than 2x (maybe 3x) wind speed upwind.
( the jib would cost about $150 bucks to make and a couple weekends of labor).
I would probably leave the mainsail alone, no need to modify because the wing jib organizes the air to the main, making it way more efficient (only on upwind and downwind though), on a reach everything works the old fashion way so you only get a small speed increase from the larger jib area). Down wind there would be no need to add a spinnaker because the wing gets you better than wind speed on downwind and a spin would just slow you down.
Actually a setup like this would be way safer because the wing sail would create lift to the bow (preventing pitch pole ), and wing sails create almost no heeling moment (the force trying to tip you over). If the wind picks up too high (over 25 mph) you would just drop the main and sail back to shore on the wing alone (the rigid wings are pretty safe up to over 30 mph winds).
This would be very fun to do but I can tell you there is zero interest in the sailing community for anything like this. Everyone just wants to stay with the one class rules, and nobody is ever going to add a mirage to their cat (if they were they would have done it a long time ago because it's dog simple, same with the advanced sail tech, all have been around for a very long time, with zero interest out there).
( of course this is all just my opinion and observations of the industry)
Bob

I like the way you think..... Good thing I don't live near you cause I'd have to buy a cat and let you hack it up!

Maybe hobie could drop some mirage mounts in the wave cats....

Never going to happen.

They would much rather sell you an overpriced evolve motor and mount.

Those who can......... DO sail H16's...........those who haven't (or can't)....... talk about changing them........and mind numbing marketing tomes.

Yes I have had a few when I grew up in Charleston. But an cat in Omaha is not practical. But I do remember paddling my cat from time to time and a drive would have been nice.

Of course you could never race it again, but how would you mount the drive?

I would get a 3/8 plate of aluminum about 8" x 12", I suppose you could use plastic sheet or wood also but it would need to be thicker. Then cut an oval hole in the middle for the mirage drive. Then build some blocks to locate the 1/2" pins for the mirage (1/2x1/2x1.25" 4req). Then fashion 2 straps 1/4"x1"x2" with one thru hole and one slotted hole ( to hold the drive down) . You would of course have to work out the heights of everything so the front and back of the drive sits on the plate.
Next you have to make the brackets that mount to the rear cross bar. I would use U- channel aluminum then strap both of those to to the cross bar with U bolts. You would drill two 1/4 or 3/8 cross holes into each bracket over and under (about 1 1/2 inch apart) these at for the clevis pins that mount the bracket to the boat.
Next the four side bars need to be made from 1/4" x1" (x length TBD). The front bars need to swing down so they are close to vertical (I'm guessing about 20 degrees from vertical, fit to the lower holes in the brackets mounted to the cross bar via the clevis pins).
Next the rear bars, these are 1/4"x1" aluminum length TBD they need to bottom out and hit the lower bars so the plate is level just above the water line with the boat loaded and passengers in their pedaling position (all TBD).
The purpose of the whole setup is to pedal the cat thru the harbor, or pedal the cat thru flat water if the wind dies (happens a lot here in the keys and SW florida). When sailing you just swing it up out of the way of course.
Once in the down position the mirage is held centered by two spectra strings mounted to the rear rudder gudgeons at some convenient attachment point (I would use clips). These two spectra strings are the main structural members that hold the mirage drive centered in the down position. If not steady enough two additional spectra would need to be added from the bottom of the bracket (near the front of the bracket) to the rear pylons (like at a 45 deg angle) to keep the mirage centered, when the bracket is swung up these become loose). The spectra string is what holds everything rigid and in place (like a truss would work (same way airplane engines are held in place)). Actually there is almost no structural load on the brackets attached to the rear main cross bar, instead if U bolts you could attach those brackets to the rear cross bar with Velcro or such straps if desired (so the shoe works can be removed in 30 seconds).
You can always just fashion a bungy to hold the mirage bracket in the up position (kind of like the way we park the mirage drives now (the whole contraption is maybe ten to 12 lbs including the mirage drive).
Now you have the mirage mounted how do you use it. There are four ways to use it.
1. Take the mirage back out, place it back in your TI where it belongs and go out in that instead (why are you taking your h16 out in no wind LOL) humor.....
2. You might be able to sit backwards on the rear cross bar and pedal from there (not likely).
3. You can run two spectra strings to the front of the boat from the tops of the pedals and operate from a second set of pedals at the front of the boat, you would have to make a long tiller extension if solo (a spectra loop going up around the front pylons that you slide back and forth to steer from the front while pedaling), shouldn't interfere with normal tiller operation.
4. You could fashion a hammock to sit on (kind of like a HAKA) that sits across the way back of the boat so you can pedal from back there (you would need to run some more spectra so you can operate the rudders from back there).
5. Take the mirage back out and put it back in the TI where it belong, then get yor evolve out and place it into the mount instead, now your all set.
Ain't nobody is going to do this, think about it, if there is not going to be any wind that day nobody with a cat is going to go thru all the work of rigging their cat and going out in the first place, they just wait for a better day. I've been out in sarasota bay plenty of times with all the sail boats and cats sitting in irons with no wind at all, that has to be a royal pain to get back in so most learn quickly, on most low wind days I'm the only sail boat out there blasting along at 8-10 mph pedaling my little heart out having a blast making my own wind with my wind machine(lol).
I have to be out there anyway so I might as well make the best of it, wind or no wind it just doesn't matter to me (9 times out of 10 when I go out in the summer (10 months a year) there is no wind).

Of course it would be 20 times easier to just mount a torqeedo 403 motor on an h16 with a ball mount. Just tie the two spectra strings to the lower shaft and mount to the rudder gudgeons via clips. The spectra string takes all the load so your ball mount doesn't need to be substantial (could be held on via a Velcro strap to the rear cross bar. Just swing it up when not using. The whole works including battery would be about 15 lbs. (way cheaper and lighter than a cheeta mount and outboard).
Bob

EDIT:
Of course if money is no object I would mount two Torqeedo 403's one on each hull either in the front or the back of the boat on ball mounts. To use them you just swing them down. You can leave your rudders up and just steer with thrust, you could literally turn 360 degrees in a 16 ft space (just like cruise ships isopods). With two motors you could probably get to pretty good speeds, and pretty good range (with two props in the water the energy consumed to propel the boat to a given speed is about 1.25 times the energy consumed with a single motor (it's not double, you would think it 2X but it's not (based on my experience on my hybrid twin engine setup). Where the calculation go wrong is if you assume "double motors = double speed" you will be sadly disappointed. However the single Torqeedo 403 is too small for an H16, so dual motors would be the preferred setup. ( Actually if I had an H16 or a getaway, this is the exact setup I would have. Just take the motors off to race (only thing left is two ball mounts with the motors removed)), 30 lbs weight for the whole works, and a few hrs runtime at fairly decent speed.

I would design the wave to have a drive on each side that would double for a dagger board. You could mold in a little seat of sorts. But that would have to be done by hobie not an after market thing.

Maybe a Wave with a Mirage paddlewheel? Just need enuff speed to fill the sails.

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis. ... 1338-3.png

Or better yet a quad-foiler! Take two adventure islands and connect the two with one ama on each one and a tramp connecting the two... Where is this thread going... I will start up the photoshop....

Nohuhu:
Now there is a fantastic idea (mirage type dagger boards on the wave, or any cat for that matter). Basically you would just use one mirage fin on each side instead of the whole mirage drive. You would need either a pedal drive or something to create the back and forth motion for propulsion (the easy part). When sailing you just lock them into the down position. Much simpler mechanically than trying to fit an actual mirage drive on there, basically you would just need a bracket mounted to the inside or outside of each hull to mount it on. Would be great for the rental fleet, when beaching the fins would be horizontal.
However I'm still stuck on the twin torqeedo 403 setup, I think that would be way cool. I might go get an h16 just so I can do that, being able to turn 360 deg in a circle would be way cool. If you watch the torqeedo deep blue video you will see what I'm talking about. Of course theirs is for the multimillion dollar rich mans version, the twin 403 version would be for us poor folk. Actually thinking about it I could put that same setup on my TI with one torqeedo 403 on each AMA. Out there the motors would be out of the way and with two motors it should be plenty of power for a TI. Who knows I might trade in my twin Hondas ( actually I would probably keep them, my boat is wicked fast now and I don't want to lose that)
Bob