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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:39 am 
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Location: Bethany, OK
One item I want to put on my eagerly-awaited '15 TI is a fishfinder/chartplotter but my total experience with them is limited to a very cheap Humminbird that tells me little more than how deep the water is. There is a somewhat bewildering variety of options even from just one manufacturer so I'm hoping you can suggest some models to consider.

I'm not a fisherman (at least not yet - the idea is growing on me though! :D ) so the actual fish-finder parts aren't as critical, but I definitely want the depth-finder. Most of the conveniently close lakes I go to are murky at best, if you can see the bottom you've already grounded! Some of them also have shallow spots scattered about away from shore to catch the unwary...

My primary interest is in the charting - I want one with GPS, and I want to be able to save tracks and export them to my computer in some sort of usable (non-proprietary) data format that can be overlaid on Google Maps/Earth or such. Ideally without requiring some Windows-only software to import or convert, since I'm on a Mac. (I have a Windows VM but eh...)

And I want the screen (or at least the depth / speed indicators thereon) to be large enough I can see them from either seat or out on the tramps/hakas. (Which brings up another question I've had, where would you mount such a device for most versatile use?)

Of course it has to be able to withstand a thorough soaking - my favorite part of summer is crashing through the biggest waves I can find on a windy day! :lol:

Any suggestions?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:14 pm 
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Lessons learned from my humminbird 386ci di FF/GPS combo:

- The "base map" it comes with is basically useless. I knew this when I purchased, and eventually got the Navionics+ card, which has the NOAA charts as well as the sonar contour plots (very nice). However, the card takes up the single SD slot on the unit, and now I cannot save screen shots (waypoints and tracks are saved in the system memory, which I can later download onto a different SD). Next FF will be dual slot.
- I went with small/low power purely for battery life. I would like a larger screen, although the thing runs for hours with very little drain on the standard battery.
- Consider battery location and wiring carefully, and ensure there is enough wire for the power and transducer.
- It will get wet, very wet, so take appropriate precautions and plan on preventive maintenance after each sail.
- I went thru-hull and had to remount the transducer a few times before I got reliable returns. In retrospect I'd do a scupper mount or something similar.
- All GPS receivers receive the same data; the units then convert it to their own format. I use freeware called GPSBabel, that will translate almost any manufacturer's format to other formats. I translate my humminbird tracks and waypoints to google earth (.kml) so I can review and save my tracks/points on my mac. It's not hard to do, but it's not automatic (for humminbird units).

-RH

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:14 pm 
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That issiue can be resolved by just buying the Navionics app (iphones and Android), which gives excellent data info, plus the ability to export the track to your PC and Google Earth.

I bought the Navionics Silver card for my Lowrance DSI4, and it only shows chart info to a depth of 10 metres, whereas the phone app shows it all.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:04 pm 
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It really depends on what you want to use the unit for and how much you are willing to spend. Of course if you actively fish and want direct sonar with the ability to see fish then one of the high end fish finder systems is what you want (the sky is the limit there as there are some really high end systems avaliable (whether they actually work or not I have no clue because I don't fish, and don't need anything like that)).
We travel in the ocean quite a bit offshore (mostly in the keys (our TI is specially hardened for the task)). We find it very useful to have active real time charting and course plotting capability (we also carry paper charts just in case). I have heard pretty good things about the navtronics app that Tony mentions but have not used it personally. The one I use is called ISailer and have it for both my IPhone and my IPad. We have the life proof waterproof cases for both and with the IPhone I have a wrist mount to mount my phone onto my forearm. All the charting has all the depths marked (I use that function a lot) and also has all the channel markers, specifics on the bridges and waterways, etc. you can create course plots with way points easily you can also store your actual course info for later export to google earth. It also warns you if you are going into water below your dangerous depth setting (based on chart info).I already use my iPhone for everything anyway. And have a nice waterproof Bluetooth speaker system for tunes, I also FaceTime with family when out, and control my gopro from the phone. Most of the places I go in the keys have great cell coverage quite a few miles out. The isailer seems to work fine with both the iPhone and our iPad mini even outside of cell range (the iOS mini has to be the type with the internal GPS (I guess some don't (I think the wifi only ipads don't have a GPS)).
I have had quite a few high end garmin gps's that failed quickly, actually I have the best luck with the cheapest low end etrex (it's yellow). We have a family plan and the iPad mini was only $50 bucks and adds $15 bucks a month to our regular cell bill on sprint (we all have both iPhones and iPads in the family).
Works for us
Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Location: Bethany, OK
I currently use a cycling app on my phone to track outings and it does well enough, but it takes a toll on the phone's battery. I was thinking since I want the depth-finder anyway I could get one that does tracking and have a better (larger, anyway) screen while saving the phone battery for more critical uses.

The program I use now (CycleMeter) will give me about 6-7 hours of tracking - if I keep the screen off. If I leave it on the battery is dead in just 1-2 hours. Connecting a charging cable is problematic since I keep the phone (iphone 5s) in a dry bag.

I also figured something with real buttons might be easier to use than trying to pinch-zoom and pan around on the phone through the dry bag. I tend to get frustrated with the phone when I'm trying to locate something on a map while using it my car, on the water with the phone in the dry bag it's 10x worse! :twisted:

I took an initial look at the Lowrance units a couple months ago and was thinking about the models in the $500-600 range, but I'm willing to go higher if it's really worthwhile. The TI and associated gear is a large purchase and I want it done right, would rather spend more and get what I really want up front. The money is already set aside so what the heck! :mrgreen:


As for exporting, looks like GPSBabel will do what I want and works on OSX or Linux. It appears I just copy the files straight off the SD card for Humminbird or Lowrance so should be easy. The two-SD-slot point is a good one, I'll have to consider that although currently all the two-slot models appear to be the very latest $1k+ versions.

I stumbled across Humminbird's "360 degree sonar" option while browsing their site. Drool! :lol: Very cool looking, but just a wee bit overkill for my needs - and the price...! :o


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:04 pm 
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
I'm with Tony and of course Bob for mapping (charts).
In fact whilst standing in the water fitting the outboard to my TI and drowning my iPhone beyond repair, I changed to a sort of waterproof or perhaps splash-proof Galaxy S5.
I find that the smart phones are not easy to read in sunlight and the waterproof covers make that worse.
Part of the ageing process probably.
So I have a chicken strap on the S5 but no cover (wish me luck) and run the Navionics application.

However, that only answers the chart side, not the depth.
The depth gauge in my Trailer Sailer told me primarily when I had already run out of depth, which I already knew as the keel was on the bottom. But it did give some idea and I did contemplate moving the transmitter/receiver from the centre of the yacht to the front or replacing it with a forward looking sonar. Sold the yacht and bought a TI instead.

So the only thing I know of looking at is the depth gauge addition to Navionics. Have a look at it on their site. The problem I think you will find is how to mount it in non turbulent water. Let us know which way you go so we can learn.

Oh, and I thought the 2015 TI had a fitting for a fish finder. No idea what that means but worth looking into.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:03 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
The 015 TI has the Lowrance-ready feature, which involves a hollow in the bottom of the hull, which is covered by a plate, and inside the hollow is where the transducer sits, in the water, but protected from snags. Other fittings included with the fish finder kit include really neat fittings to take the FF wires into the hull, and then out again where you mount the fishfinder head.

I installed one on a friend's PA12, and it really is a slick system.

I carry my smartphone in a flexible waterproof envelope (cheap on eBay) which has three snap-locks, and this seems to be pretty waterproof provided all the locks are really snapped LOL. To achieve this, I leave the envelope on the dashboard on the morning of the outing, so it gets nice and soft from the heat of the sun. I wouldn't be brave enough to carry any smartphone on board "naked", as they should be called dumbphones when it involves water.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:33 am 
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ChangeMan wrote:
In fact whilst standing in the water fitting the outboard to my TI and drowning my iPhone beyond repair, I changed to a sort of waterproof or perhaps splash-proof Galaxy S5.


I dropped my Galaxy S5 into the Texas Gulf water this past weekend while coming ashore - my daughter noticed it in the sand under my foot! Not something I would recommend, but I am pleased to report that it survived.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:54 am 
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I'm in the dark on smart phones. But wise on PC's.
It doesn't sound like there is a very good choice when it comes to fool proof but ease of use, in the capacity of a GPS smart phone? Like Bob, I would assume that your smart phone is going to end up in the water at some point and thus one should go on that premonition.
Another issue, would be range, is there a smart phone that can receive GPS out of range of cell service?
Thus range and ease of use (assuming you need to encase your phone so it's waterproof) are the two main concerns if going the smart phone option.
Otherwise the Lowrance (Navionics) option is probably the most fool proof, although not by much (by my own experience) and has it's own vulnerabilities.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:51 pm 
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If the phone actually has the GPS chip it doesn't need cell service to locate. They will use the cell tower signals to enhance the GPS location accuracy or speed up location acquisition time, but it isn't necessary.

It's nice to have an all-in-one-package portable computer to do everything for me but there are some things I prefer having a dedicated device for. Often when I most want to refer to my map I'm also busy. If the map is on a chartplotter mounted beside me on the kayak no problem, just glance down as needed. If I need to move the map a bit I can just reach down and poke a button real quick.

On the other hand if I have to pull my phone out, unlock it (slide-to-unlock is often VERY difficult in the drybag), then rely on a touch interface through a dry bag - possibly with wet hands too - all while I'm busy doing other things (like paddling / pedaling / steering to hold position) it can be a nightmare.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:04 am 
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I bought a Lowrance Elite 5 CHIRP. Went by Bass Pro and played with their display models, the 7" ones are way too big for a kayak in my view. The 4" might have done fine but it didn't let me enlarge the overlay numbers very much. The 5" is a nice size, the maps are fairly easy to read at a distance and the extra-large setting on the overlay numbers is *BIG*! Should have no problem at all reading them from the other end of the TI.

The gadget geek in me is happy too - I've already been playing with the NMEA 0183 output on my desk, think I'll interface that to an AVR or RPi and do various things with it... For one thing I could record my own tracks and do away with the need for GPSBabel. Or how about some color-change goodness? I have some RGB LEDs that can be set to any color of the rainbow. Maybe set the color based on water depth? Or speed? (This would be far more entertaining with a translucent hull.) :mrgreen: Lots of hams in my area use APRS in their vehicles. It's been a while since I've seen it on a boat. That could be entertaining too...

Now I just have to wait for the TI itself to arrive...! :D


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:45 am 
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Okay, that's it, I've had it with the Lowrance Elite 5 units. Have two units with Navionics here for CR. Both units failed last year, warranty replaced, both replaced units failed this year and I broke the Navionics chip in a fit of rage, lol.

I'm going to give the smart phone option a try with the Navionics app for charting/GPS. Went for this unit, price seems reasonable at $125 and works here in CR. Samsung Galaxy S3 Mini GT-i8200 Factory Unlocked International Version - WHITE , to keep the unit water proof I'm going with these on Amazon, highly recommended it seems, Ultraproof Waterproof Case for Apple iPhone 6 5S 5C 5, Samsung Galaxy S5 S4 - [Black] Universal UltraBag Waterproof Pouch with Touch Responsive Front. To hold the unit in place of my current railblaza port in the small cup holder/TI, I'm going to use this railblaza device. Railblaza Mobile Device Holder

Hopefully the battery life will be sufficient for a 12 hour outing with the smartphone?? or will I need an additional battery?

For depth, (I mostly surface fish, structure and fish identity is not so important), I'm going to try this unit from Hummingbird for $95. Humminbird HDR650 Digital Depth Gauge .

Anybody have any experience with this unit/ mounting???
The only thing I don't have covered is speed. Important for trolling. Is there an app for this on the smart phone via GPS?

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Tandem Island- 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:31 pm 
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Joe, have a look at the MagPi issue 30. Some great information on interfacing to the Raspberry Pi.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:39 pm 
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Navionics will display speed if your device has a GPS.

I had depth gauges on previous larger craft.
Problem with the Hummingbird transom mount is that your mirage drives and dagger board are already in the sand or rocks before the gauge tells you about the low water. Of course they do help you forecast to some extent.
The Uniden QT-206WHP has a through hull sensor that will read from 2.5 feet. So if you are in shallow water less that I guess it will not tell you anything reliably. I can't see where Hummingbird give the minimum depth. Probably about the same as to have a signal strong enough to bounce off 600 feet would understandably be giving multiple signal returns at 2.5 feet.

Of course the Uniden is through the hull mount where there is no turbulence. Would you be game to drill a hole through the bottom of your hull and hope it doesn't leak.

Let us know what you end up with.

Cheers,
Brian


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:21 pm 
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Thanks Brian,
That is good to know about the Navionics app, does speed via GPS.
I'm not to worried about using a depth gauge for alerting me on shallow water. More concerned about using it to relate to the Navionics charts and give another barring. The Hummingbird depth gauge transom can be epoxied inside the hull and work well.

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