2014 TI vs. 2015

The Hobie published weight figures for Islands haven't been accurate for years ...if at all!
My AIv1 actually weighs 70.78kg but Hobie said it weighed 52.16kg.
Hull = 42kg (with twist-n-stow rudder)
AMAS = 14kg
AKAS = 4.88kg
Mast/Sail = 4.31kg
Mirage Drive = 3.22kg
Seat = 1.3kg
DB = 1.07kg


I haven't weighed my 2010 TI but you can safely assume it is much heavier than what Hobie published. Hobie have re-weighed the Islands but haven't updated the official specs correctly. The fully rigged weights are still way off!
According to Matt in Keith's Expedition thread P48 ( viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=705 ) the new models weigh:
Adventure Island
Fitted Hull Weight: 102 lbs / 46.26 kg
Fully Rigged Weight: 185 lbs / 83.91 kg

Tandem Island
Fitted Hull Weight: 130 lbs / 58.96 kg
Fully Rigged Weight: 240 lbs / 108.86 kg
As not much has changed on the TI's I'd say the TI's have always been around the 240lbs fully rigged weight.

So, for an AI, if you take Hobie's previous published "115#" (52 kg), and the correct weight for the fully rigged weight of the AI 2 (185#, 83.9 kg), the weight increase (AI to AI 2) is a whopping 70# (31.7 kg).

As Stringy says, the weights of the AI/TI have probably been much more than the Hobie site claims--for years. Hobie has corrected some stats on there official site, but not the "filly rigged" weights. Clearly, deceptive advertising--presumably, because they do not want to discourage potential buyers by publishing the true weights.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith, wouldn't it be nice if Hobie put an end to any confusion by publishing the correct weights for 2015 and pre 2015 Islands. The current "apples and oranges" situation is creating a perception that the new models are grossly heavier than previous ones... Just sayin'

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Yes, I certainly agree. It is disappointing to say the least. And the "rigged weight" is not the only point of confusion. The "capacity" is also. 400# (181 kg) is listed in the Hobie site capacity stat for the AI 2, but apparently this is for the hull only (or is it?) If it is only for the hull, what is the capacity of the fully rigged AI (and TI also?) Certainly, adding 2 amas, each of which can support my 190#, must increase the capacity of the AI and TI.

I don't intend to add more weight on my camping trips, no matter what the real capacity is; however, in the WaterTribe Everglades Challenge, real capacity is very important, especially for the Tandem. Chief, who runs the EC and other WT events, says the usable capacity is 80% of the boat capacity (i.e, 480# for the tandem.) In the case of the Tandem, if you have 2 fellows who weigh 230# and 250#, you have already reached allowed usable capacity and there is no room for water/supplies/gear. So, the real capacity including amas (as best as Hobie can estimate) is very important. Previous years, there were Hobie Tandems greatly overloaded by Chief's standard. Will they be allowed to compete in the 2016 EC?

Amabouy & Dockwater on the beach at the 2015 Everglades Challenge--what do you think their weight is including water/supplies/gear? They did just fine, btw.




Or, how about this one on a camping trip to Pavilion Key?




Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith, as you are aware, the CE capacity as shown on the plate on an Adventure was the same as that on a (pre-2015) AI, presumably because Hobie could not assume that the amas were attached at all times, so they specified the "hull only" capacity.

My own tests showed that a pre-2015 AI ama needed a load of about 220# to push it down to water evel, while a TI ama could support about 330# each.

It would be very interesting to find out what Chief accepts for other multihulls which have the ability to be used as single hulls.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Keith, as that published weight was never correct I think it's better to say the AIv2 (83.9kg) is only around #29 (13kg) heavier than the AIv1 (70.78kg), which isn't too bad considering the upgraded larger hull and ama, longer mast, bigger sail and built in daggerboard.

That, of course, assumes Matt's upgraded weight specs are now accurate!

Tony, I believe the capacity of the pre-2015 AI was 350#. The AI 2 is 400#. The CE sticker does not specify it is "hull only." Maybe that is implied. The CE sticker is a European requirement. Does the US also comply with that? Australia? On the Hobie site, it simply says "Capacity 400#, 181.4 kg." No mention whether that is "hull only" or fully rigged. Clearly, Hobie needs 2 capacities on their site: hull only and fully rigged. They have 2 specs for several items on their site. I would recommend to Chief that both the AI and the TI fully rigged "capacity" is about 100-125# over that of the "hull only" capacity. It would be fair to the competitors.


The Hobie site specified the fully rigged AI as 115# (52 kg). I think they have to live with that--it was there from 2007-2015. Now, they say the weight of the fully rigged AI 2 is 185# (84 kg). The increase in weight is 70#--their numbers. Of course, simple honesty requires them (Hobie) to put the correct weight on their site spec sheet--as of Sept 6, 2015, they have NOT put the correct weight of the AI 2 on their web site.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Having a hard time finding 2015's, but there are some leftover 2014's around. So, good info here.

does anyone know what the real weight of a 2014 TI would be, like for the purpose of roof-topping? Website seems to list 87.1kg but I have my doubts now?

I actually don't think there has been much contention about that figure (which actually now shows the 2015 TI as 90kg). Remember though, that the figure included 2 Miragedrives, 4 hakas and 2 amas, so the actual weight you put up on the roof could be a lot less depending on how you load it.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Tony, that number (90 kg) for the 2015 TI is simply incorrect. Matt Miller posted the following on Mar 20, 2015: (You can check it out here:
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=705)


Perhaps Stringy & others maybe can help on the weight of the pre-2015 TIs.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I agree Keith, but the bottom line is that in order to not exceed the roof loading, he will need to partially disassemble his TI as the complete weight will exceed the maximum loading.

I too wish that Matt, or at least one of the dealer people (you there Josh?) could grab a set of scales and come up with some (semi)official weights of current and previous Islands.

I am not at all bothered by whatever is noted on the CE stickers and the relationship of these numbers to reality. All I need to know is that adding amas provides at least another 100# per side...

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Seriously?? The 2015 TI is 240lb rigged? Ouch, I don't have access to a 2015, but there is no way a 2013 TI is that heavy, closer to 200lb, maybe less. If correct that is a serious difference and I guess we could start naming them TI1 and TI2. Would be interesting to hear some exact numbers, tested. I suppose I could use a bathroom scale, lol.
As far as weight capacity. To be honest I notice a big difference when just adding one passenger (total 2). I ride so much smoother with just being solo. So adding any extra weight to even get close to the maximum suggested capacity as it stands is out of the question. It just would not be a pleasant ride and somewhat unsafe if the wind picked up. Whereas staying in about the 2/3 range or less of current weight capacity, I feel I can weather just about anything mother nature throws at me on the big blue in my vicinity.

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Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

The reason I'm so curious about the weight, is that my roof rack will only take max 75kg. So I'm trying to determine what the weight is (mainly of the 2014 TI), as I know the 2015 is heavier...but the weight of the "hull, amas, mast, sail etc" - all the things that would go on the roof...for things like the mirage drivers and odds and ends, I am assuming you would chuck them in the boot of the car. Just don't know if my car can cope with the weight...which is going to be a deal breaker.

Weighing my 2010 is on my to do list. Just got to work out how to best weigh the hull. Picking it up and standing on bathroom scales would be off the dial! I'll have to try balancing the hull on the scales.

What amazes in all this is that Hobie know the correct weights as Matt's post above shows.
The published 90kg fully rigged weight is false advertising.
I don't know about the US but in Aus there are penalties for false advertising.
Anyone planning on roof topping their AI/TI needs to be aware that the fully rigged boat will likely exceed the vehicle manufacturers rooftop carrying capacity. It would be very interesting to know what an insurance company would say in the event of an accident if they knew you had exceeded the rooftop capacity. I'm not sure that 'Hobie said it weighed this much' would be a defence ...but then again???
Of course the same would apply to anyone hanging their Island from the ceiling.

As to whether the earlier models are that much lighter, I just don't know. The TI differences are minor. I know that later models added flotation, maybe some drivewell reinforcing, then the reverse bow and seat, seat well/scupper drain upgrades.
Would that add so much more to the fully rigged weight?
I can see I'll have to get around to actually weighing mine soon!