Adventure Island Crossbrace on Bow instead of Stern Aka

Connecting and disconnecting the crossbrace for the Akas would be far more intuitively obvious if they came from the bow Aka instead of the stern aka where they are currently. This appears to be a design flaw, but maybe there is a technical reason they can't be that isn't intuitively obvious.

The reason I say the crossbrace should come from the bow Aka is that the boat is launched stern first off of a trailer. The operator is at the bow. The Amas have to come forward to make the boat work, right? Where they are located now, on the stern, creates a semi-chaotic experience. Pull the Ama forward and get to the stern to lock it into place: how does that work efficiently? If the crossbrace came off of the front Aka, pull it forward, and simple reach to clip it into place. Done. Same is true for knock down, though that is less inconvenient it is still less elegant than it would be if the crossbrace came from the forward Aka.

Is there a structural reason that the crossbrace has to come from the stern Aka? If so then I'd understand why it is where it is, but I can't see what difference it would make.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

It is where the skipper can reach it from the seat. Launch folded, pedal out from the ramp / dock and push out the amas and lock. When coming into a dock, you stay seated, unlock the brace and fold in the ama on the dock side. You can easily reach over the ama to grab the dock or step onto one. With the brace forward, you would have to get out of the seat.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I completely rig my TI onshore. I can do this out of the way of the boat launching area, and simply drive round and reverse my trailer down the ramp. After I park the trailer, I jump in my TI and go.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Yep, I rigged mine before backing it down the ramp. The only thing I struggled with was attaching the sail control line to the sail clew. I could just barely reach with the TI on the trailer.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

The trailer I have wont let me launch unfolded. I don't come into a dock (I might sometime but that's not highly likely). I see no reason that the cross braces could not extend from the bow Akas and still be reachable from the seat. The connector seems to require manual intervention to get them locked in place and I see no reason that they couldn't be spring loaded for push on lock.

None of the suggestions I have received so far are in any way helpful. Thanks for the replies.

Have you tried launching with the amas folded in, and then climbing aboard, pushing off from the shore, inserting the Miragedrive, lowering the rudder, and THEN extending the amas from the seat? It won't tip over you know...

Well I guess my suggestion that you haven't provided anywhere near enough justification for Hobie to spend money making changes to the design, or that you are the only person to have made the suggestion in at least the last three years, will not go down well either.

On my TI the connections ARE springloaded, and are easy to fit one-handed. Are you now suggesting that Hobie has to also redesign the connections to make your relocation idea work?

Would you suggest a TI have the connectors at the bow too? So they would be out of reach of people sailing from the rear seat. Hmmm.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Ace, couldn't you just buy a couple Tandem akas with braces and set it up the way you want?

The rest of us, in the hundreds and maybe thousands, are apparently happy with the current arrangement--I've been using it for 8 yrs and would not like to see it changed unless it is a significant improvement.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Never been a problem for me either.
We have seen and contributed to countless significant modifications and improvements in the design of the AI - including the birth of the TI - over many years.
The latest model release includes lots of great features.
However, I am still waiting for the next model with built in "landing wheels" activated by a lever similar to the the dagger board setup.

_________________
Mickey
2016 AI Hibiscus
purchased NEW Nov 2021 - My 5th
Adventure Island Sailing since 2008

I also fully rig my TI on the trailer while in the parking lot minimizing time at the ramp. I also launch off the trailer bow first into the water but also return and load bow first onto the trailer. (my trailer allows the TI to sit bow or stern forward)

I think your problem can be solved by adjusting your launching procedures to work with the current design.

"The most damaging phrase in the language is 'We've always done it this way.'" Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper, Information Week March 9, 1987 p. 52

I notice many of the replies in this thread refer to their TI. I have a 2015 Adventure Island, not a Tandem Island. I can't comment on the differences in Ama/Akas between the two boats as I only have the AI.

1) I can't open my AI on the trailer it is on, so that suggestion (for me at least, and I'm sure there are others) is not an option.
2) If the crossbrace came from the bow Aka with a spring loaded close mechanism it would be much easier to work with when and after launching. I should make a video of the Charlie Chaplin "Modern Times" process the current configuration causes.
3) There is no reason that a cross brace coming from the bow would be any more difficult to release when coming into a dock, but its ease of use with a spring loaded press into place would be something that would create a much higher level of user ease and satisfaction.

There is no way for me to launch bow first. The boat comes into the trailer from the water bow first. Loading it stern first would create a whole new set of Charlie Chaplin "Modern Times" problems. I launch from a beach, not a ramp. I do prep the launch so that all I have to do is slide the AI off the trailer into the water and open the Amas. Therein lies the problem: the bow is where I am once she's in the water. Now I have to spin the boat around and get on both sides of her to clip the crossbraces into place. If the crossbraces were spring loaded and came from the bow I could open them both with relative ease, spin her around and take off. It isn't my protocol that needs to change, nor my ability to analyze a problem and suggest a resolution to it.

"Failing to heed the advice of others is the sign of a closed mind". Tony Stott April 28 2015.

Your intransience in the face of advice from experienced owners and Hobie itself is breathtaking. Claiming that usage of the current configuration resembles something from a Charles Chaplin script, unfortunately just highlights your ignorance.

You have totally ignored advice to simply launch your AI with amas folded, expanding them once you are in the seat

2. You need to spend more time familiarising yourself with your AI, and you might be surprised to learn that the inner connections of the akas ARE springloaded, and are designed to be operated with one hand >from the seated position<, in BOTH the AI and TI. (BTW, Your suggestion would be ludicrously unworkable for TI owners travelling solo from the rear seat).

Perhaps you need to join your local Hobie Island Club, as you evidently have not had the opportunity to see how almost all other owners rig their Islands.


I disagree entirely..

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I think Admiral Hopper had something else in mind and not Hobie Islands and their owners.

I'm done with this useless thread. What a waste.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

We are not making a change to the successful design and tested brace system we use. There are reasons they are located where they are. Part of it is a designed-in a failure system to allow the braces to release under excessive loads due to a collision situation to prevent other damage to the boat. Since 2007... this has worked wonderfully. You can re-set the failed brace from the safety of the seat if needed.

One more shot at this...

If stepping over the akas to reach the brace is a big issue... Push off the trailer / beach and get in the boat. Once you are in the seat... whalla! The aka braces are right there. Fold the amas out and lock the braces... No Charlie Chaplain experience at all. You can float it or pedal over to your beach folded or unfolded. Does not matter.

I would always want access to the braces while on the water... from the seat, so it works perfectly as is. I can fold the amas back in and land on the beach folded while still in my seat.

Other reasons for folding while on the water:

Coming into a dock.
Pulling up alongside another boat.
Going through a narrow passage.
Pedaling up to a trailer on a narrow ramp.
Pulling up to a mooring buoy.

BTW, placing the MirageDrive in the well backwards allows you to pedal aft off the beach and into open water.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Hi Matt:

The Amas from 2007 till this year were considerably smaller than the 2015. Have you clambered over the folded up Ama on a 2015? No? I'd love to see that done smoothly. I am neither little no light in weight, and the idea of getting over the Ama has less than limited appeal to me. The comments from so-called experienced owners aren't coming from owners of a 2015. Take a look at the size of the 2015 Amas vs the older ones. Clambering over those is not exactly an easy process. Insulting me by saying I have a closed mind shows your mindset, not mine. I have a very different configuration than the previous years of Adventure Island, so while the suggestions made along the way are not cast aside lightly, they are seen in light of the configuration of my boat, not one from 2007-2014. Furthermore, moving the Ama forward from the seat does not seem like an easy task if I'm facing a 10 knot breeze.

In my earliest posting I wondered if there wasn't an engineering reason for them being set up the way they are. While I can't be 100% certain that the crash provision you write of could be engineered into cross braces coming from the bow, I have a hard time seeing why they cant be. After all they are oriented 180 degrees opposite on the Tandem Island, now aren't they?

As I write, I'm looking at http://www.hobiecat.com/mirage/mirage-tandem-island/

I see the crossbraces on the Tandem Island face from bow to stern, although they are on the stern Aka. Why would orienting them they same way from the bow Ama for an Adventure Island be of any significant difference, except for improving the user experience of the boat?

Just because "We've always done it that way" doesn't make it the right way, does it? Just because no one has pointed this out before doesn't invalidate the suggestion, or is "Not Invented Here" an obscene phrase?

The most damaging phrase in the language is “We’ve always done it this way!”
— Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper in an interview in Information Week, March 9, 1987, p. 52
“A provision of endless apparatus, a bustle of infinite inquiry and research, may be employed to evade and shuffle off real labor—the real labor of thinking.” Joshua Reynolds

I give up. Hobie aren't going to change it, and I bet they won't lose sleep over it.

BTW, the new amas on the 2015 AI are LONGER not wider, so stepping over a folded ama will be exactly the same as for all the other AIs built since 2007. Even history is shooting down your objections.

Also, in answer to that other straw you clutched at, Matt was talking about the use of a sacrificial aka brace bolt preventing damage, NOT the placement of the brace in front of, or behind the aka. I HAVE broken an aka brace bolt in my TI when an ama ran into something, and the bolt sheared exactly as intended, and no other damage occured to the TI. This STILL offers ZERO justification for moving the brace to the forward aka.

Have you noticed all the other people posting their support for your idea? [crickets]

Please just get over it.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker