Some Random thoughts after a high-wind sail...

Yesterday I finally got to go out on a really windy day. (20-25 G 28 according to the NWS.) Went 17 miles and had a BLAST! A very WET blast!

One of the more hilarious things was watching how long it takes for the front cockpit to drain out through the drive well. Got to watch that repeatedly! It'd fill up completely then take a surprisingly long time to drain out...

I do think I ought to get around to the spray skirts... Those knuckles DEFINITELY divert a LOT of spray my way! For that matter my hakas were creating quite a spray as well...

I started out going upwind and wow, it sure was difficult. I had a devil of a time getting very far upwind. Is that because the sail was furled so much? Or just the way it is in that strong of winds? Crosswind was screaming fast but I could barely go upwind at all before my speed dropped off to nothing. As best I could tell anyway... Maybe I should get a wind vane for a better indication of wind direction...

Downwind was a riot! A high-speed, non-stop cruise back to the starting point. I had to control my enthusiasm though, every time I'd let a bit more sail out and go above 8 MPH water started flowing steadily and heavily over the leeward aka right into my lap. It was worse than the upwind splashing.


I also tried sailing from the back seat. Not gonna happen until I lose more weight, I think - unless I can find a victim for the front seat to counter me some! It definitely rides dryer back there, and the bow doesn't dig in - heck, it doesn't dig in at all - but:

- I have abysmal steering control from the back seat. Below 2-2.5 MPH I can't steer at ALL the boat just turns leeward. Once I'm above that steering works but I can only *barely* go upwind.

- The hull slap is LOUD and ANNOYING! Instead of cutting the waves the bow rides up and over then smacks down on the next. So do the amas!

- Which leads to the last, I just don't like the feel of the ride, feel like I'm popping wheelies and I'm afraid I'll go over. Going broadside to the waves feels VERY tippy. Possibly just psychological - I like the feeling when I have the amas to either side instead of way out in front of me!

I've been thinking about the speed drains - I just don't see any point to them, I pretty much just leave them cleated open at all times so why not take them out to reduce hassle when loading on the trailer? I *have* seen water kind of spout up from the two scupper holes in front of the rear mirage drivewell when moving fast so thought that might be a reason to leave the drains, just to keep little geysers from spraying me in the butt... I might be soaking wet at that point anyway and it wouldn't matter...


I also need to do some better sealing around the front hatch. In spite of the VERY tight bungees I wound up with about a half gallon of water in the hull after this trip. The bow spent quite a bit of time submerged - just cuts straight through waves - when I was sitting up front.


I had hoped for a great crosswind sail, which is why I headed for the particular lake I used. The winds were forecast - and the NWS history shows - south winds overall and this lake is long and (fairly) skinny running east-west. The winds on the water did NOT cooperate though... It was remarkable just how shifting they could be with the change in terrain to the south side of the lake. I had first thought to get to the south shore for less fetch and smoother water but in hindsight I may have had an easier (if not smoother) trip staying closer to the north shore. One moment the wind's solidly from the south, the next SW. Or occasionally it'd die completely, but you could see riffled water just ahead and behind!


I'm still trying to build confidence and open the sail a bit more. I know I don't want it fully open, but I probably keep it more tightly furled than necessary and don't get the speed I could. Part of the problem is the wind just isn't steady around here, it's constantly gusting. Get the sail set for the stronger gusts and you're crawling in the lighter periods. Open it up more and when the gust hits I freak out and think I'm going over! I had thought about just leaving more sail out then easing off the mainsheet when the gust hits but the sail makes a godawful racket then...


As the speed increases the Mirage drive REALLY wants to lay itself flat against the hull. Okay, no big deal - except once it's there one of the blades starts to wiggle/vibrate and thump against the hull! I suppose I could wrap the bungee around both pedal arms to keep the blades down but then I can't quickly start pedaling to tack... Mostly I just keep one foot pushed against one arm to keep the blades off the bottom of the boat.


I'm so glad it's getting warm. (More like summer this day than spring!) Hi-70s to low-80s air temp and 62 degree water. It'd still be chilly to fall in but felt wonderfully refreshing to get splashed by it!


A GPS track of the day's entertainment:

Nice report of an exciting sail!

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Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

It is really great to read of such enthusiasm! Your track shows you have got a pretty good handle on sailing to windward. As for your uncertainty regarding how much sail to unfurl, I just rely on keeping the leeward ama from consistently burying, as you will sail slower if the leeward ama is impersonating a submarine!

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Yeah, reviewing things after the fact really helps get the big picture. When I was actually on the water I felt like I was getting nowhere on the windward stretches! I've been going through the video footage and notice I almost never buried the leeward ama, nor was I leaning over near as much as it felt like at the time. Still have plenty of room there, I think.

A few stills from the video:

Most of the bigger upwind splashes were like this, the ama is still riding high.


Even when getting it from both sides of the bow!


When I was "back seat driving". Considerably dryer ride but I sure felt like I was pointing skyward when riding up the waves.


The torrent of water at higher speed on the downwind run. Unlike upwind when this was just one big splash, going downwind it'd do this continuously if I didn't reduce speed.


One of the reasons I enjoy my Outback so much is splashing in waves on a windy day. It's great to know I can still do the same thing - at higher speeds too - on the TI!

A beam reach or just above it, will be your fastest point of sail on the Island. Few modern multi-hulls are able to do well DDW - you always want to maintain some angle off the wind. You may have to travel further, but if you can maintain more speed your "velocity made good" will improve.

The leeward ama can be buried about 3/4 way for best performance. If the akas are down in the water you're incurring enough drag that you're losing performance.

I can't tell completely by your photos but I think you can get more out of the boat. No doubt you will once you gain more experience with it. Remember, you can "hike out" a bit by sitting up on the windward gunwale and helping to keep the boat flat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-pd0OjolS4

My downwind run was more correctly a broad reach. I've done quite a bit of dead downwind, as the lake I usually use has tended to have the wind straight down the length of the lake. It is rather boring!

I watched your video and my main question from it is: Am I worrying overmuch about nothing? If I go full sail, is there an increased risk of flipping, or is it just going to plow the downwind ama and slow me down? That's been my biggest worry - especially with gusty winds. Sometimes those gusts hit the sail and it *feels* like I'm heeling over quite a bit. The video footage doesn't show that, although it also makes the waves seem a lot smaller than they appeared in person! Seems like most Youtube videos do show the upwind ama considerably higher in the air than mine has ever been.

I know the sail starts spilling wind as it leans over and bends, I've just not gotten comfortable enough to push the limit a lot farther!

Also, I wondered if the sail would be quieter fully deployed. When I'd ease off the sheet the leech fluttered badly, mostly right up at the top by the mast. Perhaps with it fully deployed I could ease off the sheet to reduce power and it would behave better?

One reason I made the hakas is to hike out, just not quite ready to do that yet!

Nothing wrong with being cautious.

Islands are not prone to capsizing unless something breaks - i.e. an aka support bolt, etc.

Build up to it a piece at a time, but also realize that if there is enough wind, sometimes less sail is actually faster than full sail.

As Tom says, capsizing is a pretty rare occurancew, and (in my opinion) is very unlikely to happen if you are just "sailing hard" for two reasons: the unstayed mast is designed to bend, and spill air from the sail, thus depowering it; and the leeward ama buries itself and slows boatspeed down.

It would appear that almost all the capsizes I have read about included at least a couple of the following factors:-
A sudden wave lifting the windward hull dramatically, leading to
Air getting under the windward trampoline
Breaking an aka brace pin (usually from hitting some object in the water)
Breaking a rudder pin (usually from hitting some object in the water)

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Randomjoe:
Some of what I'm saying might not apply, because my TI is so heavily modified. Personally I prefer to sail from the front seat solo, when in the back seat I feel trapped back there and don't like to deal with the sail control lines trying to take my head off all the time. Also when sailing from the back my bow sticks up too high and I get blown around by the wind, steering is less effective for me especially in higher winds. You would definately benefit from a set of spray skirts. I made my own from heavy duty pet screen material (I got mine at Home Depot), it's screen material dipped in rubber. I ran a 1/4 inch nylon (stretchy) line from the front padeye to the center of the AMA and clipped the line to the AMA I then folded the screen over the line and sealed with hot glue. To make the seal you take a couple pieces of aluminum (I used 1/8x 2" wide x 1 ft) I lay the first piece under the area I want to seal, then ooze in hot glue over the area, then press it down with the other piece of aluminum. This flattens out the glue into a 1/2 to 3/4 wide seam that is extremely strong and thin. You have to move quickly because the aluminum sucks the heat out of the glue very quickly. Then you move on to the next section. My spray skirts stay on the boat always, I just unclip the clip and fold the spray skirt over the bow for transport. Water and air still goes thru the screen but the water doesnt travel very far and you actually stay dry. I had previously built 5 or 6 sets of spray skirts that didn't hold up, ours are so strong we can actually sit on them or stow gear on them. That 1/4 inch line also prevents the AMA's from folding in, and keeps them from rattling around. If you ambitious you can also make another set for the back, that you can hike out on if you so desire.
I have the tramps on my TI and prefer them over HAKA's, but thats just a personal preference, also the stock tramps kind of suck (not a good design), I have my tramps heavily re-enforced so we can actually sit on them with full scuba gear.
Like I said earlier, my TI is pretty modified and I'm flying as much as 260 sq ft of sail at times, this requires two people to be hiked out on the tramps just to keep the boat level (the whole trick is to keep those darn AMA's out of the water). I made a simple hiking stick made from a piece of 3/8 pvc water pipe with a simple rope loop on the end so I can steer the boat while hiked out (works great). My personal opinion is if you ever want to get the most out of your boat, you have to get out of that darn seat (by hiking out). The tramp can't catch air and flip you over if your sitting on it.
We tend to use our TI more offshore down in the keys to support our diving addiction, I personally prefer to spend as little time as possible actually being in the boat and sailing (I just want to get to our destination as quickly as possible). Obviously I'm no hard core man vs sea sailing purist. The coolest thing about sailing in the keys is the nice steady trade winds, my TI is specifically rigged and hardened for us to get out to our preffered areas (sometimes as far as 10 miles from launch (obviously not recommended on a stock TI)). Actually we were friends with the crew of the marquesa and a couple times now we have caught and overtaken her on the way out to the dive sites, nobody else cares but they think it's pretty awesome, obviously they have 30-40 people to worry about and can't push it. (The Sebago Marquesa is the biggest, fastest cat in the keys). My wife has a store there and knows everyone it seems, when there her and her best friend would go out with them sometimes 3-4 times a week just for fun.
Bob

Joe, he modestly forgot to mention that his TI has TWO outboards!

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Oops forgot to mention that, but I have to raise the outboards anytime I'm planning to go over 15 mph or they explode (yea I've blown up a couple). Because I have that bow sprit, my fore sails are angled and create a great deal of lift, when I'm pushing really hard downwind with the huge spin and all sails out in 20 mph plus winds my bow is out of the water 6 inches. With the wind on our rear quarter and both of us hiked out and all sails out, the boat easily achieves 1-1 to the wind and sometimes a little better (always has). Actually both the times I mentioned were before we added the twin Honda outboards and before I added the wing jib, two boats ago (we don't use that spinnaker much anymore, I don't even bring it along very often anymore as its pretty useless for anything but downwind runs or running on my hydrofoils (which I no longer use since the accident a couple yrs ago)). To be honest anymore we don't even go out anymore if the winds are forecast over 7mph or if the seas are rough (mostly because of my bad back). I no longer push the boats beyond the max I guess I'm older and wiser now (lol). I found out the hard way pushing the boat too hard in high winds and rough seas is not for me anymore so I developed the wing crap and hybrid outboard crap so I can still do what we like to do (diving and snorkeling) without having to spend hrs getting out there at 3-4 mph (I much prefer 10-12 mph in low winds and flat seas over what we used to have to deal with lol). Like I said I'm not a man vs sea sailing purist and don't mind spending a dollar or so in fuel to have fun for the day and have no plans now or ever to sail at 2-3 mph.
Regards
Older and wiser Bob
PS probly shouldn't talk about all that crazy stuff anymore (but it sure was fun lol)

Hm, I guess this means the akas should be able to handle at least 300 lbs without issue? That was one concern I had with hiking my fat butt out very far. Hobie's tramp limit is 200, though I figure that's more the fabric limitation than the akas. I've always wondered how much weight the aka tubing and knuckles can handle.



I bought the Hobie hiking stick, but have thought I'd prefer something I could more quickly attach/remove. Your idea is about what I had in mind. Right now I don't have the knobs on them as I have the steering handle pointed out to the side - easier to grab and I don't have to shove it under my leg to turn right. Not sure how that position is going to work with a hiking stick though.

I have tested the TI akas, and it takes 330# to push them just below the surface. I too am also too heavy for the tramps, but if you fit hakas, and the weight is spread about equally between hull and aka, I reckon the max weight for sailing would be around 400#

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I'm 230# and walked across the tramps confidently the other day. I think the limitation is in the buckles not the fabric or the akas.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

I removed the speed drains at the dealer when picking up my TI to no ill effect during it's maiden voyage in 15-25 mph gusty spring winds. As far as I could tell no water entered the seatwell from below with my 180 lbs. soloing.

I had considered building a floating ball check valve to replace the speed drain but it seems to be unnecessary so I've set that aside for now. The speed drain O-ring outside diameter is very close to 1" so the scupper it sits in is roughly 1" in case anyone feels the need to explore an alternative to the protruding drain. I think another possibility might be to insert a porous material in the scupper that would resist water from below while still allowing water to drain slowly from above without actually sealing off the scupper.

Chris