TI aka supports

Just received my new TI, and sailed it last Friday. Wind was about 16 mph, got about 150' and the starboard aka folded up and I capsized, then turtled - not fun. Fortunately there were some personal watercrafters nearby who dragged me back to shore after I removed the mast while upside down. It appeared to me that either the aka pulled out of the boat, or more likely, the diagonal support popped off and I went down. In examining this support arm, the spring is very soft and allows that support arm to be removed very easily. Any comments?

Sounds to me like you may not have had the aka support properly seated. One mistake that I made initially is pushing on the brace release to try and seat the brace on the brace ball. If you do that you might think it's latched when in fact it's not. I learned that it will seat itself all you have to do is line it up.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

Welcome to the club. Sounds like you had a broken shear pin and/or the ama arm pull free of the aka or as Tom mentioned above. One probably was the culprit, which first, then the rest followed. Go here for others in depth knowledge of this issue. viewtopic.php?f=70&t=54465
There is a safety line you can install to prevent another collapse in the future.

I'm thinking Hobie should start informing all new buyers of this potential life threating issue, which it doesn't have to be if precautions are taking. Some kind of a written warning in the paperwork and reaffirmation by the dealers, or a warning sticker. Maybe even a safety line to be installed.

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Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

I believe that the light-duty spring was the culprit, and in the future, I am not going out until there is a secure way to be sure this support arm stays in tact. This problem may have been started with the rough water bouncing the ama around and breaking the diagonal support loose. Either way, the outcome could have been a lot worse, as I am no spring chicken.
Thanks for your replys. I agree that Hobie needs to make a fix - some way to hold that diagonal brace down once in place. This is a dangerous situation.

Rough weather should not cause the brace lock to undo. In 7 years of AI/TI sailing I've never had one come undone. Check that your brace lock is functioning correctly and actually locking properly over the ball.
I guess it's possible to accidently bump it so it releases but I'd consider that unlikely. Adding the previously mentioned safety lines or even trampolines protects from accidental operation and shear pin failure.

I had a similar incident that was caused by an aka coming loose from the front aka crossbrace (though it did not result in a capsize).
You can read about my adventure here:
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=53527

Many of us now have devised our own ways of mitigating the risks associated with an aka coming loose or loss of an aka brace sheer bolt (the aka brace popping off the ball would have the same effect).

Most have taken the advise of FusionEng, KayakingBob, tonyscott, and others and use safety lines to prevent akas folding and prevent akas from coming out of crossbraces. I went a slightly different route and chose cargo straps (viewtopic.php?f=71&t=54622). The others mentioned above have far more experience in this matter, however.

I started to list out some of the threads on this (one of very few) Hobie weaknesses and ways to mitigate it, but there are just too many good ones to list. If you do a search or browse the open forums you will find tons of anecdotes similar to yours and advice on how to compensate.

When I first got my new TI, I was very naive about some of the small things that could cause big problems. I shudder now at the idea of me or others being out on the tramps without some of these small fixes in place. The AI / TI are awesome boats, there are just a few little extra things that are very important to do to improve its safety and resiliency.

I would like to see Hobie at least have a factory supplied leash of some sort for the akas. Some people have never had a slippage, but many others have. It seems to be random with the brace locks coming undone and it would be pretty easy to add a little redundancy there. A new person will not necessarily know about this and may not know to harden it.

Walter

Before I launch, I pull on each aka to ensure they are secure. I also pull up on the diagonal brace (not too hard) to ensure it's seated on the ball. The forces on the brace should lock it to the ball and not cause it to lift off. I doubt the cause of your ama/aka folding was due to the spring or the design of the attachment. If, indeed, the brace popped off the ball, I suspect it wasn't really seated in the first place.

What happens when you pull on your brace when it's properly seated?

Thats always been my point on adding the light safety leash thingy, you never know which of the 5 or 6 things that lock the AMA's out when sailing may not have been snapped in properly, or in my case a few times now, I have snapped the AKA bar into the hull, but without realizing it, the edge of the tramp was folded into the AKA joint and didn't allow it to engage completely. Another time I had a rough beach landing that damaged but didn't break the nylon shear bolt on the AMA, but it did break the rest of the way and came off the very next time out as soon as any stress was applied to it (this has also happened to me with rudder pins more than once).
Actually upon review and reflection of most of my rudder pin and AKA bar failures, almost every failure I have had was self induced, where I did the damage inadvertently on a previous outing only to have if fail completely for no apparent reason on a later outing. Most of the time it would be rudder pins that would break partially when I accidentally bumped the ground when launching or retrieving where the rudder pin was partially sheered, then later go out sailing along in open water minding my own business and the rudder breaks for no apparent reason. Same thing has happened I think with the AMA Shear bolts, where someone was helping me retrieve the boat by tugging on the AMA's, which half stressed the AKA shear bolt, then like a ticking time bomb at a later time we would hit a boat wake or something, and the shear pin would break the rest of the way. I suspect 80% of my failures occurred this way.
My main advise is to inspect the shear pins and rudder pins periodically to insure they are not partially damaged.
Then add the simple safety leash that many of us have suggested just so you don't have any surprises while out on the water. The safety leash doesn't prevent the AKA shear bolt from breaking, but it does prevent the AMA from folding in so you can stop and replace the shear pin without having to go for a swim.
Thats all
Bob

A simple method for ensuring the aka does not exit the aka tubes on the hull is to rig a bungee between the two opposing akas. I have affixed a small rope loop on each aka, just beyond where it inserts into the hull mounted aka mount tube. These are held in place with plastic wire ties. An adjustable bungee is then hooked to each opposing aka. I run a fairly snug amount of tension.

The end result is that the akas are kept under constant tension which keeps them seated in the aka tubes. The standard pin/retainer still does the work of keeping the aka secured, but if for some reason something is bumped or not fully seated, the instant the bungee is connected, full seating is going to occur. From there, nothing else will unseat the aka bungee retaining system.

Yea like Tom said most of us who have had these little annoying things happen to us like the AKA bars slipping out while underway, and the shear pins breaking while out in rough seas have all came up with little fixes here and there, they all work. Personally I feel as long as everyone is aware of the potential issues (especially when sailing offshore), and does something (anything) as a double reduntant safety (and understand that it could happen to anyone at any time), even if they are never put to use in actual conditions, its worth spending 5 minutes of your time to do something (in my opinion for your own safety).

Rolias here: I have devised a simple fix and I would like to post 2 pictures here but I can't figure out how to insert a picture. What gives?

Posting images FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12574

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)