Leaking Forward Hatch

The hatch is rotomolded as part of the hull. Seems like it would make sense to have cutting guides molded into the hull to minimize the human factor. I can't imagine Hobie already does this or even uses some sort of template given the wide range of sealing functionality reported here.


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Dear Hobie,

Respectfully,

I thought I was the proud owner of a 2015 red TI....not sure yet. I thought I did a good job vetting hobie and the reliability and quality control of all their products....including/especially the T.I. (We are new to the Hobie family) We purchased the new TI in Feb/2015. Since the purchase and approximately 12 trips out of Dana Point, California, we have had major leaks from two different areas.....on our brand new 2015 T.I. (did I already mention it was brand new).

Leak #1
The receiver where you slide and lock your sail into was cracked and we discovered serious water entering the hull through this location. We returned our TI to the dealership in Irvine, CA. This was two weeks after we received the new T.I. They did a fantastic job listening to our concerns and returned the TI to Hobie to have them fix the issue. Hobie fixed it.....not quite sure what they did, but it included cutting thru the bottom of the hull to get to the crack then patching/resealing/repairing the appropriate area. Not happy at all that they cut into my new TI. But bottom line ....this is no longer an issue. I honestly felt they should have replaced my new TI with a new one that did not have a crack or a leak in it.

Leak #2.
After about 40 minutes of taking constant water over the bow (VERY similar to the pics on this thread) we took on approximately 25 gallons. After the first couple of waves came over the bow I noticed the bow getting heavier and the TI become almost instantly sluggish along with the steering becoming increasingly much more resistant. I decided to turn back...honestly was not sure how safe the return trip would be (I had 8 and 9 year old grandkids with me) It took me a while to figure out that water was coming in thru the bow hatch. I had no idea that was even possible or an issue that Hobie was already aware of and has been aware of for years. I'm truly VERY disappointed that I was not aware of this leaking hatch issue/problem BEFORE purchased the T.I. The dealership/Hobie now has my T.I. and they are addressing the issue....by trying to think of a way to fix the leaky hatch. That's great....but you have known about this issue for years. Again....hoping they simply replace my new 2015 TI (Not repair/patch/reseal) with a safe new 2015 that has been properly inspected. Priority number one for any watercraft new or used.....make sure you have no design flaws that may cause your product to sink.

I have video I would love to attach showing Leak #2 incident.....wondering how to do that?

Other than the two leaks the craft is solid and fun!!!!

A leaking T.I. is definitely a deal breaker.

You can post video that is hosted by YouTube or Vimeo. Look at the image posting FAQ.

We would not cut into the bottom of a kayak to make a repair and rarely do we do repairs for a dealer at the factory, so a bit odd. I would have to ask warranty staff on Monday.

A cracked mast receiver is likely from incorrect mast install... Allowed to lean unsupported by the lower pin. Replacement of the receiver is simple to do, so maybe what was done.

25 gallons is VERY unusual even with an imperfect hatch seal. The hatch sheds water and would have to be submerged for long periods to leak significantly.

Literally EVERY boat will leak, so expecting no leaks is fantasy, but this boat has something very wrong with it to leak that much. A gallon maybe, but nothing about your boats leak story is normal.

Hopefully you have contacted the dealer? That is the way to get help.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Perhaps I'm missing something, but couldn't the foredeck be redesigned to accommodate a trapezoidal shaped twist and seal hatch?

Holy crap that is a lot of water. Matt is correct, if a lot of water isn't physically washing over the hatch ( like in heavy seas) it doesn't leak. I'm sure this is driving you nuts... Before doing any more just do a sanity test. Take a garbage bag and duct tape it over the whole front hatch (simple to do), then just go out for a quick sail, if there is no water then you know exactly where the problem is.
I know on my boat the front hatch leaks a little in rough seas, but we are talking a couple cups with mine. Knowing that if I plan to go out hot dogging very fast in rough open water at tremendous speeds, I automatically just tape a garbage bag over the front hatch for the day.
Just another pointer, the bow on these boats are very weak and flexes up and down as much as 4-5 inches when planing and wave jumping in rough 3ft chop at high speed. Since the seal is a flat seal vs a cork in a bottle type seal any bow movement opens the seal up even if it's perfectly sealed when at rest. If you don't believe me just have someone sit in the boat (front seat), then walk up front and lift the bow, watch what happens to the hatch cover, better yet remove the hatch cover, and watch the entire opening move around like there is nothing there.
Best of luck to you finding the leak.
FE

Matt,

Thank you so much for the quick response.

Reference:

"We would not cut into the bottom of a kayak to make a repair and rarely do we do repairs for a dealer at the factory, so a bit odd. I would have to ask warranty staff on Monday."

Matt,

Our TI is currently at the Irvine Dealership (Southwind Kayak) for repairs on leak #2. If you were to call and speak with the owners Mike or Kae (Southwind Kayak), I'm sure they would be happy to send you a picture(s) of the hole (made during the repair at the factory that was patched and resealed on the bottom of our brand new 2015 TI. They told me Hobie made this hole to repair leak #1. You can obviously see it and feel it. So for some reason there is an exception to "We would not cut into the bottom of a kayak".....I would sure love to know why our new 2015 TI was an exception and specifically what repair work was done. The factory had our new 2015 TI for approximately 10 days during this process. I believe that the repair fixed the leak....I was getting 2-3 gallons prior to this repair. We were not happy when we were given the news and shown that a hole was made in the bottom of our new 2015 TI to repair a serious leak. Seems there would be no need to cut a hole in the bottom of the kayak just to replace the receiver? We think about that hole/patch job every time we are on the water.

Reference Leak #2

Matt, This is the YouTube link that gives you a great perspective on how much water was coming over our bow. I did end up reefing the sail approximately 50%, didn’t seem to help much… so much water had already entered the hull.



Youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQB_L77y-SY



Thank you,

Respectfully,

Luis

Luis:
Watching your video, the amount of water washing over your bow is pretty normal, most of us have spray skirts on the front of our boats that eliminate 90% of the spray. I also have 5 pieces of paracord ran under each tramp hooked from the front AKA bar to the back AKA bar (under the tramp). This prevents the tramp from sagging when someone is sitting on it (way dryer), HAKA's also work well I hear.
I've been thinking about your leak #1 repair. I'm wondering if you are looking at the bottom of your hull and seeing a white plug under the mast reciever, perhaps thinking it's from a repair. If that's it, then set your mind at ease, that white plug is in all AI/TI's, It's done during the molding process on all boats. Hope that's all it is.

On our TI if out in similar conditions to your video, in around 5 hrs I take in typically about two quarts of water, I suspect only a portion of that water comes in the front hatch, I have laid towels in my hull and it appear at least on my boat small amounts of water leak in pretty much everywhere. At least on my boat when I pushing very hard off shore you can see the boat bending twisting and flexing everywhere. And even with my spray skirts I still get pretty wet, but boy is it fun. More weight in the back always helps.
FE

FE,

Thank you for the great tips. Much appreciated. I really like the support straps/cords idea under the tramps. Makes complete sense.

As far as leak #1, I did receive a very quick response back from Matt explaining that he checked with his warranty staff and they did indeed do a leak repair at the factory on our TI consisting of a small weld to a blow hole and they also sealed over the small brass filling on the bottom. I will attach pictures of the weld job that was completed (our TI is currently at the dealership dealing with Leak #2).

Matt also said he reviewed the video and believed that was not much water coming over the bow. Understand that the video is only about 2 minutes long....but it was a good example of what we were hit with for about 45 minutes. It was certainly more than enough water to immediately effect the steering, maneuverability, in the first five minutes. We have had the TI out around a dozen times. It's the first time water has come over the bow consistently. If it's not the front hatch, I have no idea what else could allow so much water in such a short amount of time.

We are missing our TI!

Luis

First off ..I too purchased a 2015 TI from Mike at Southwind in Irvine, CA. They are wonderful people.
However, I have you all beat as to the amount of leakage. Leak #1 Incident ... Semi-rough - 35 gallons in 8 hours. Leak #2 Incident ... Semi-rough 70 gallons, almost sank. Took it in for repairs. Hobie "repaired the front hatch". Leak #3 Incident ... completely glassy water for 6 hours and no leaks. (I checked with a mirror while out.)... Then coming in, got a 7 mile/hour wind for 30 minutes = 3 gallon leak. Going back to the dealer today.

I have now contacted my Hobie dealer about the front hatch leak on my 2015 TI I had to put up with all of this year. Next season I don't want to have to deal with removing 5-7 gallons from the hull after each outing like I did this year. I was to the point of even thinking of somehow installing a bilge pump.

My dealer is fantastic and is always very responsive but he says he'll need to consult Hobie on how to fix this. I informed him that so far no official Hobie fix has been reported from this forum. I guess we'll see what happens.