Boating with non AI partners

I'm a recent new proud owner of a 2015 AI. I recently completed a 5 day camping trip on beautiful Lake Powell in Southern Utah. I traveled solo. It would have been fun to do the trip with others but thought other than another AI owner. how can you travel with say kayakers given the variation in speed of the two craft. Let alone the different tracks you would be taking.
Any suggestions to travel together successfully?
Has anyone towed a kayak with their AI?

You are the guy that gets to the predetermined camping spot early due to your superior sailing capabilities. With the ample cargo carrying capacity of the AI you will make camp, bust out the cooking gear and have Lobster Thermidor and a chilled Fume Blanc ready for your slower comrades who will in fact be so impressed with this accomplishment they will buy AI's of their own.They too can arrive with time to spare. Then you will have AI company assured. Life is too short to have (censored) food while camping. Be a leader.

Hi Matt.
I have been camping with 5 other kayakers who didn't have the sense to buy a Hobie, for over a year with some success.
Granted, I have a TI with a Honda Outboard but we have been having a ball.
We camp somewhere then kayak to a pub some 6 Nm away for lunch.
Getting there, the wife and I pedal as the rivers are not wide enough to sail and we travel at a similar rate to the paddlers.
Getting back to camp, they usually ask if I can tow them. After a couple of wines they don't feel like paddling for some reason. If the wind is right, I can tow 3 of them under sail without much problem.
The tow rope is tied to the Aka or handle (yes I have an older one with handles) and fed through the front of their kayak to keep them pointing the right way. They usually hold the end of the rope so they can disconnect easily. I have the nylon braided ski rope that floats and makes it a lot easier.
So to answer your question in an AI, yes doable under the right conditions. Certainly have a go and you will make some friends I'm sure. The petrol motor certainly helps when the wind isn't right. When putting it away last time I asked them who wanted to kiss it goodnight as it has saved their bacon on more than one occasion. No takers - miserable people.
I think this photo shows what they think of the tow.

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Cheers, Brian in South Australia
Tandem Island -

My many sea kayaker friends do not usually camp with me--they are intimidated by the Hobie AI/Ti. Still the fact is, on the ocean, it is about 50/50 who will arrive at a campsite first. If you have a favorable wind, sure, you and your Island will arrive first, but if you have an unfavorable wind, the kayakers will likely arrive first. If you have no wind, it is no contest--sea kayakers are having the appetizers & wine or rum/coke while you slog in.

That is my wife at the front left.




Who do you think is going to win any race to the designated campsite today?



This year's WaterTribe Everglades Challenge is a good example. 20 Islands started, only a 4 Islands completed the course. It was tough on sea kayakers too, but many more finished.

Which is easiest in any conditions? Usually the Islands, but I wouldn't get too cocky, because the sea kayakers may leave you in their wake.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Yea your going to be eating humble pie if you underestimate the capabilities of experienced sea kayaker on decent high end sea kayaks and surfski's and Proa's.
We once spent a week in a cabin next to another family with a pair of Kamanu composites 24 ft Proa's that I'm pretty sure weighed in under 30 lbs ea (he let me lift them). At the time we thought our TI was pretty hot. Every morning we launched at about the same time and every day they we out of site in under 30 minutes, a pretty humbling experience. Later in the week we got to know each other and talked, really nice people. Ever since then I have a new found respect for sea kayakers, and surfski's.
FE

I got my newly-purchased AI2 on the water for the first time last year in early September - coming from a surfski as my primary on-water vehicle.

Now it is about a year later and I am finally coming to grips with how slow the AI2 is by comparison - and accepting it for what it is.

I have seen the video where Greg Ketterman on a Mirage Drive out-pulls Olympic medalist Greg Barton using a paddle and I believe what I see there.

But that is raw pulling power..... maybe analogous to me on my mountain bike in a 19-inch gear out-pulling some athletic guy on a road bike in a 110-inch gear.

I do not know enough about physics and the ergonomics of paddling/pedaling to explain it.

Flat water, no wind; paddling my surf ski I can catch up with and stay with an extremely-fit, strong, relatively-young guy pedaling a Revo/Mirage Drive.... and I'm older than dirt.

My uneducated guess is that pedaling a Mirage Drive uses fewer and smaller muscles than proper paddling - which uses both the legs and the core muscles of the upper body. ..... After a 1-hour hard workout on my surf ski, my legs are so trashed that I have trouble walking back to my car. ..... Also when paddling and doing intervals, my heart rate quickly rises to over 90% of it's "220-minus-age" max.... whereas I find it quite difficult to get it anywhere near that pedaling my Mirage Drive..... I can do it, but it's not what I would call pleasant.... concentrating all the load on one or two muscles in my legs.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Most people are probably pedaling their mirage drives incorrectly. They are probably only using the 2 major thigh muscles (quadriceps) and their gluteus maximus (butt) in a pushing fashion. While those are fairly large muscles and they work great for doing leg presses and squats, they should not be the only muscles involved. Those foot straps are there for a reason and if adjusted properly should allow you to pull on the pedals as well. This then utilizes your hamstrings on the back stroke. Cyclists use this technique and is why the clip-less pedal is so popular. If you've never done it before it takes some conscious practice for it to become ingrained. I will be the first to admit that I fall into this bad form when I'm on the TI and it might be because of the reclined position instead of being upright on my bike.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

Guilty as charged.... never even occurred to me to pull.

I will start learning to do that.

Thanks.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

guilty

Don't forget an AI is also a sit-on-top kayak, and much wider than a svelte sea kayak. Peddling would almost surely outrace paddling in the same shape craft, but the nature of the boat is still a dominant factor.

I'm not pleading guilty to not pulling on my Island pedals. I'm out to enjoy a nice sail on my Island while I make my way to a camping site. If I have to pedal, I'm not going to use the foot straps (my neoprene boots don't fit in them anyway.) I accept that the kayakers are going to get to camp before me many times, but I'm not going to try to race them when the winds (or lack of) are against me. I like to pedal, but at a relaxed rate and to keep the blood circulating in my lower legs.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Allow me to clarify. I wasn't meaning to accuse anyone of doing anything incorrectly. I was merely looking at the pedals from a cyclists perspective. I have used both clipped (foot straps) and clipless (shoes clip into pedal) and once you go that route you tend to teach yourself how to push with one leg while pulling with the opposite. I'm with Keith, in that normally I'm not out to pedal my brains out. I let the wind do most of the work for me or I just pedal at a leisurely pace. However, if I am going to pedal my brains out because a situation called for it or I'm just screwing around seeing how fast I can go, then pushing and pulling using the foot straps is the most effective method.

Keith, your neoprene boots should fit fine if you adjust the straps.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

Are you actually pulling against the straps or just un-weighting that foot?

I've been working on the technique for about a week now - maybe 3 outings - and I am definately seeing between 1 and 1.5 mph increase when I try to pull with the other foot.

The zinger is, that I cannot really *pull*.... rather it's more like unweighting that foot so more force gets delivered to the flipper by the pushing foot.

I see a similar situation when cycling with old-school toe clips/straps. .... it's more like it lightens the stroke, giving more spin as opposed to actually powering the crank on the upstroke.

My impression of the Hobie straps is that they would pull loose and/or have a very short life if I actually managed to pull against them.

???

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

There is no question that bike riders who are clipped into their pedals CAN definitely increase the power generated by their legs by pulling on the upstroke of the pedals.

Peter, I believe your experience exactly mirrors the normal situation when people first try the pedal pulling technique. Simply unweighting the pedal actually demonstrates that the muscles being used hsve not been developed enough to be effective.

If you want to improve the pulling aspect, try short bursts of >only< pulling on the pedals. After some practice, you will definitely see an improvement in your "normal" pedaling.

And Keith, I don't bother with all this these days, and removed my pedal straps a long time ago - they don't have categories for over 70 year olds in the Olympics

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Because the stroke is more linear with the mirage drive it would probably be more of an un-weighting technique. The straps and strap holes are probably meant more for just holding your foot on the pedal versus actually being used to produce force. I think you're right with regards to the lifespan of the straps if they are "abused." With a cycling stroke it's a circular motion which allows for you to transition and the bottom of the stroke to pulling. Additionally the pedals and clips are meant to take the push/pull abuse from the rider. It would be interesting to see if I could adapt a set of mtb clipless pedals to the mirage drive. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-PD-M520L-Sport-Pedals-Cleats/dp/B000WYAENC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472757437&sr=8-1&keywords=shimano+mtb+pedals, and then get a pair of sandals like this: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-SH-SD66-SPD-Cycling-Sandals/dp/B002MGBITC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472757395&sr=8-2&keywords=bike%2Bsandals&psc=1

_________________
2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas