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 Post subject: learning curve
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
I have a long way to go in understanding my rudder is a bit of an uphill struggle!

Mine always popped, so I bought an upgraded one, it popped too, so I made darned sure it wouldnt by clamping it to the bracket. That was great till the rudder pin kept twisting out. In total frustration I dropped a stainless pin in..everything good until I noticed a heavy helm. the clamp holds well it doesnt drop off even in a good wind/chop..but its not holding well enough to prevent the rudder JUST unclicking from the lockdown nut and I am sailing with the rudder fractionally out from its lockdown position, thus the heavy helm and the reason why the plastic pin came adrift, too much load.

Hobie are going to make available the new rudder lock upgrade kit this is going to apply more holding power. I read the following...

IMPORTANT!
When the rudder is in the locked down position, it will
have some flexibility in the system due to stretch in
the rope,

If there is any flex whatsover the rudder will move fractionally out from its down position

IMHO it is essential that there be no stretch at all...just a couple of mm over the length of the cable will be enough allow the rudder to come free of its lockdown nut.

Philip


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
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Location: Florida
Philip

Hobie new rudder up/down lines

They hold down rudder w/o using the pin

KayakingBob of Hawaii sez it wooks very well and he is out in 20knt winds and 3'+ swells.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:49 am 
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
Yakaholic,

Sorry I didnt 'pen' that very well

When I wrote about the plastic pin coming adrift I meant the plastic rudder pin and its twisting out because the centre of effort on the rudder is too far back, the reason being...the rudder's not cocked right down. This is pulling the entire rudder assembly and pin free of the sleeve that runs thru the stern.

My concern was that its only just out of the lockdown position, the C clamp is holding it very nearly vertically down. What I am thinking is that this rudder is going to have to be held down held down very TIGHT indeed to keep the boat on track I mean the leading edge has to be almost touching the stern (underside of the transom) of the boat....any more than about 5-7 mm back (on my boat) and the load on the rudder's in the wrong place. How your going to keep it down under line tension alone (specially if the lines quite long and pulling from the TOP of the rudder assembly) baffled me

These problems are not occurring for me in 20 knots of wind and 3' seas (better go windsurfing then!) but I am delighted to hear that the new system can hold the rudder hard down in such winds and look forward to being able to sail in not much more than half of that without hearing that dreaded "CLUNK" of the lockdown screw popping or suddenly losing all rudder contol looking behind me only to see the rudder assembly flopping uselessly around half way out of the stern of the boat! Unfortunately I am going to have to wait a bit more time for my upgraded system

I appreciate that the rudderlock upgrade negates the necessity of a lockdown screw.

Philip


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:50 am 
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
my rather agricultural lockdown system[img]http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd140/philip1el/rudderclamp1.jpg

It doesnt wash off but its still not holding QUITE hard enough, I think if I had a deeper clamp that could reach over to where the lockdown screw goes into the rudder housing (use the clamp instead of the screw) that would really hold it...wouldnt want to hit anything with it though[/img] http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd14 ... rclamp.jpg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Philip,
You could try this as a possible temporary fix before your upgrade arrives:
1-Locate the lock down line.
2-Attach an extra line of similar size/non stretch to the lock down line by looping or tying a knot. You could do this where the line exits the stern near the rudder or from somewhere inside you can reach. It is possible to run the extra line alongside the original.
3-Run the extra line to where you can reach it from inside your seat hatch.
4-When you want to lock down your rudder secure that line tightly around a strong fixed point inside your kayak. Try to secure the line with a knot that gives you mechanical advantage like a truckers hitch. (It would be better to drill a hole somewhere not critical like the mesh pocket and have it exiting there and then secured by a cleat -but this is a temporary fix remember).
I'm sorry I can't be more specific but I don't have an AI. However this is basically the same principle that Hobie are using with their upgrade. They have done away with the up/down lines single lever which sort of opposed each other. To get tension on the down it made it harder to pull up.
They have now separated the up/down so that each can be secured tightly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:27 am 
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
Stringy,

Thanks for your tip. I did see the photos you posted of your extra line and it looked like a neat way round the problem. I am going to try to get a deeper clamp if that fails then I will do as you advise and rig an additional line onto the lockdown line.

Many Thanks

Philip


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:12 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Philip,
Didn't know if you had seen my earlier post-sorry for the repetition.
When the rudder problems started being reported I thought it may have been because the lock down line needed to be relocated to get more leverage further down on the twist-n-stow. However it seems Hobie's upgrade still uses the original position for lockdown so it must be OK.
If you're concerned about line stretch you could locate the extra line to a position that gave better lockdown by using a leverage point somewhere further down the rudder. The best thing about the line is that it's quick to release when needed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:08 pm 
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
[quote="stringy"]However it seems Hobie's upgrade still uses the original position for lockdown so it must be OK.

My worry was the high leverage point and possible stretch..... we will buy it and test it for Hobie!

From what I read in Yakoholics post its already been proven in conditions rather beyond the crafts original remit, thats REALLY fantastic news

I think this rudders been a major pain for Hobie, once you tool up and churn out its a bit late to go back and say, I think we could have done this another way. I always think back to the camlocking rudders on the cats and wonder if theres anyway they could have used that system on the A1.

I think Hobie are very brave to release such a radical craft onto the market and I think they are very lucky to have such an enthusiastic, innovative clientele that are willing to put their heads together on the forum and help Hobie develop their craft. The new rudder shape I believe is an example of a modification made by one owner some months ago. Many suggestions made by people on the forum are being incorporated into the latest models.

I only come up with complaints.....many of you come up with solutions that have helped me a lot. Thanks for that. I am sure You have also helped the company A LOT.

How about some small reward system for those who consistently contribute solutions and fixes that greatly help the development of the A1. I am not talking about a new boat (actually that would be neat!) nor a pile of money (probably the coffers are empty anyway, free upgrades et al...) but we do have a couple of star performers on the forum that are ready at the drop of a hat to freely give to all and sundry help and advice that are the result of their hard work, I think they deserve to be rewarded!

Philip.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:10 pm
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Location: Rio Vista, CA
Philip1el wrote:
I always think back to the camlocking rudders on the cats and wonder if theres anyway they could have used that system on the A1.


Philip.


I am so glad they didn't! I hated that system. Hobie finally stole a good idea from Prindle having up-haul and down-haul rudder lines. Now they just need to perfect it.

Dang, I praised Prindle on a Hobie forum. Now I'll never get my new rudder kits! :lol:


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