Down wind sailing

Hey Hawkeye, where do you secure the inboard end?

I either let the large rubber-covered end just sit against the opposite gear pocket if it's not a long run, or clip the snap to the black eyelet just in front of the gear pocket on the starboard side if it is a long one. A bungee over the whisker pole keeps the sail from pulling the outboard end up too much in a gust or you can just hold it down with your hand. Keeping the pole down ensures that each gust translates into a great burst of speed going downwind. [/img]

Hawkeye, your bungy sounds kinda like a boom vang. Can you tell us how and where you attach it? Your ideas for the inboard end of the whisker pole sound great!

For the inboard end, an eye could be mounted just aft of the mast, and would be usable on either tack. I'm considering it, as you may be able to tell...

I have considered mounting a padeye (with a strong backing plate) somewhere in the center of the boat just below the mast, I just haven't done it yet. And yes the bungie acts much like a boomvang. btw: I loop the bungie (it's a long bungie) around the ama carrying handle and attach it to the eye of the sail at the same time I attach the snap shackle from the 'whisker pole.' One could also tie a small block to the ama handle and run a line from the sail through the block to the cockpit...but then it's getting kinda complicated again!? I might work on both those ideas this week now that you guys have me thinking about it again. Because when the wind is 15 to 20 mph or more nobody's arm is strong enough alone to keep the whisker pole down. When the wind is really strong, I have just been leaving the pole strapped to the akas not using it at all. For me so far, it has been most useful when the wind is light to moderate and I want to squeeze all possible speed out of it.

Some pics would be great!!!!!

http://home.mchsi.com/~hawkeye255/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2536918.html

and

http://home.mchsi.com/~hawkeye255/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2536919.html

Next time I have someone along, I'll get some pics with my whisker pole in use. The boat is racked on top of my wagon right now.

I would suggest that you all try it. You'll like it and you may even come up with a better way. It really is much simpler than I can describe in words.

Thanks for the pics Hawkeye.
Looks like something I'll have to try.
I have resized them below so they are easier to see.

http://home.mchsi.com/~hawkeye255/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2536979.html

http://home.mchsi.com/~hawkeye255/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2536980.html

http://home.mchsi.com/~hawkeye255/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2536981.html

http://home.mchsi.com/~hawkeye255/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2536982.html

http://home.mchsi.com/~hawkeye255/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2536983.html

bungie from sail eye to AKA.... in conjuction with your leg allows short down wind extension ...allowing for gust from the other side. Then transfer sail eye to hand... disconnect and change tack..I seldom get a long down wind, enough to carry another pole.. That paddle use picture looked interesting...more pressure against mast? right... that was what the dip / circle was for? I still have dial up and pictures load slow several days ago...Check out Hydrovison Outrigger AMA with fin/dagger.. wish some one could come up with a snap on addition like that. I have altered inflatable... rudder mounted up thru skupper hole in another kayak for... V sail Pacific Action... down wind sailing... acts as directional dagger... effective. Posted where someone was to try attachment to AI..
I have tried with a suction cup strap on factory produced mount fixed base V sail...required manual adjustment it could be shaped with ropes attacahed... not as easy as PA model..That is mounted to alternate kayak..So I did get some good action when I tried the suction cup strap on to AI. But as wind increased over 10 knots drove bow down and the whole thing fell off into water. For about 20 mins. I did see an increase in speed. Those Hydrovision Ama daggers with Hobie peddles..Troqueedo motor would just be great after that long run downwind. Unless your going one way. My wife still paddles and won't come pick me up cause she is wth me. Now that would be a dream kayak... AI sail / peddles / Troqueedo motor /with those upwind AMA daggers...Hobie should engineer more options in to AI for 2010 expedition model...Anyway long downwind would look a lot better if docking and upwind were not as equal. I try to find across wind with downwind drift. After a day on the water.. loading and driving all add up.

Yesterday's sail was almost all close to dead downwind, so I got plenty of opportunity to evaluate my new rig.

My conclusion: the usefulness of the barber hauler decreases dramatically as wind speed increases. In all conditions, it is easy to overtrim the bh. It really twists the top of the sail a lot with only a slight adjustment. I think it works best on a broad reach in light to moderate winds, and downwind in very light winds. It also inhibits unintentional jibes.

I think a whisker pole of some kind is in my future. Bamboo needs trimming anyway...

I sailed yesterday aprox 7 km downwind.

And finally have to say that the best solution for me is the Gwiz's bungees system. A bungee tied at each aka (not at the ama) brace that i use at convenience.

Simple, cheap, and easy to install and remove.

I tried that method briefly, but found that the bungee pulled too much in light air, twisting the sail excessively. When the wind picked up, my brand new bungee couldn't take it and is now permanently stretched.

I had a heck of a downwind sail yesterday, riding the back side of TS Fay. Launched downtown and sailed about 6-8 miles up to my house. The harbor was extremely rough, and I buried the boat all the way to the Mirage Drive! It felt like I was about 20 degrees nose-down, with most of the boat under water. I was pretty sure this is what it looks like moments before a pitchpole, but the boat just came back up and kept going.

I used to own and race a Chrysler Mutineer thirty years ago in Wyoming. In the first regattas I entered, I was blown away by the competitors who had whisker poles to wing out their jibs for the downwind legs of the race. Those boats would pull away from me like I was standing still. So I got a pole too for my boat. The difference was not just the speed gained off the wind but also more control.

I also owned a Klepper Kamerad W (K2) kayak at the time that I used with Klepper's own sailing rig and a pair of plywood amas I'd made myself. (Both my amas and akas were 8 foot long.) I used a pole on the kayak too for downwind sailing on those 60-mile-long Wyoming reservoirs trolling for giant brown trout.

When I first saw the AI assembled with its sail up in my local dealer's show room, I knew what it was about instantly and had to have one.

After the first few outings I was only disappointed in the downwind performance of the boat. I kept bugging my dealer, had Hobie had come out with a whisker pole for it yet? They hadn't then (and still haven't), so I jury-rigged my own.

If you feel comfortable with bungees or lines that hold the sail only half way out, that's fine. I understand. But I'll use a pole to wing it out all the way and be faster than you every time. I'll have more control too-no sail twist, etc. With a little velcro around the handle, the pole is easy to stow as well laying across the akas. If the wind is brisk, I reef down a little then adjust the length of the pole to match. It only takes a second. You can control a jibe much better too, by simply holding on to the pole firmly. Think: you are the boomvang. If the wind is really howling, I reef the sail down a lot more and don't use the pole at all. I don't really want to bust up my boat.

If you decide to try it, you want to push the sail all the way out with the pole, then back it off a couple inches. A little belly in the sail is actually faster.

btw: the boat hook I use cost $15.99 a year ago. The additional bits might bring the price all the way up to $20. Commercially made whisker poles cost anywhere from a couple of hundred to several thousand dollars.

I looked into the commercial whisker pole and padeye options, and think I could do it for about $100, which really isn't that much money when considered against the price of an AI and the lifespan of the boat. My Ocean Kayak Sprinter is about 15 years old and my Klepper foldable is about 10. I plan to keep the AI as long as I can sail it, and I'm only 43, so I'm talking about $100 for maybe 20+ years of enjoyment. Of course, I'd have to do two, since the wife would want whatever I get.

I'm considering going that way, but will probably try a bamboo version first, since that is growing wild here for free.