Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:23 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Helping each other
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:18 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Phuket, Thailand
Aluminiums a nightmare, like Chekika my akas and paddle shafts are corroded but its a surface corrosion, by the time it becomes a real 'issue' it will probably be time to buy a new set anyway because the linkage holes to the crossbar will have egged out with use...Stuff wears out/corrodes, just had a look at my windsurfing boom same thing. If I went to North and complained about it, I dont think they would give me a look in. The old ones given me a couple of years of good service now its time to change it! I was absolutely amazed that due to a defect in my original, nearly 2 year old hull, Hobie shipped me up a whole new one-gratis, it must have cost them a BOMB. How much longer will they be allowed to provide such back up (new style rudder, up-down lines, hulls and now new akas/paddles) before someone higher up pulls the rug out from under the whole thing and the A1 becomes an extinct species along with the trifoiler and this forum becomes an AI enthusiast chat group??? This forum has provided me with huge amounts of help in dealing with those pesky things such as the seat plugs, rudder pins, hatch seals, collar bearings...there always seemed to be a fix...Isnt that our way? I thought Chekikas idea of a sacrificial anode was great and will try it myself. I would love to say to Pirate go with a brass rudder pin, but that would invalidate his warranty. His seat peg fix sounds like a stroke of genius. A bayonet type seat plug (light bulb fixing) would be a dream but that would entail yet another modification to the mould. A concept is a wonderful thing, development takes time and money. After 2 years of aka wear, mine might not LOOK very pretty but they work just fine. Maybe 16 months is another issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:19 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
On reading your post made me mindful that we all must be careful not to denigrate Hobie which is a great inovative Company that has brought us the Adventure Island which I adore. My enthusiasm to make it perfect has brought out the lateral thinking side of me that digs deep when it needs to.
This forum is the gateway to much knowledge and experience in relation to our boats and for that I really appeciative. To Hobie that have included so many inovations in one package I am appreciative.
Most of my apparent derogatory comments relate to just two items, the rudder pin and the paint finish. I have not busted a pin yet though Mickey and I had our boats out in 20 to 30 knots and wild short chop and wild water yesterday with not much as a whimper from anything on either boat. This was despite sailing it full sail at times, a few uncontrolled round-ups and many many downwind submergings where the bow disappears well underneath for what seems an eternity only to rise up again like the phoenix in all its glory. Oh what a wet wet boat but oh what fun we had yesterday. We were both mindful of rudder pin failures but experienced none. Maybe they are a rare event, I will see.
The second annoyance is the lack of lastability of paint on the aluminium. We are proud of our boats which do take on a worn look as soon as the paint flakes off. A better more lasting finish would be a big improvement which would be a benefit to both owners and the Hobie Company. Anyway it is a great little boat which provides us with hours of child-like enjoyment....Pirate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:19 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: South Florida
All very good points, gentlemen. I've pretty much decided not to bother Hobie and my dealer (70 mi away) with the aka "warranty" problem. I'm thinking, when it gets bad enough, I will sand blast the paint off (if it doesn't cost too much) and put on my own finish. Interestingly, my dealer, who really deals in much larger boats, has a powder coating facility for aluminum. I might talk to him about that for the akas--probably cost too much though.

The paddle does suck (since you can't get it apart because of the corrosion) and ought to be replaced by a fiberglass paddle.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:47 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:04 am
Posts: 54
Location: SOUTH WALES UK
Chekika,

What is the spec. for this sacrificial anode?
Have you any more details, so that I might try it before I get this electrolytic corosion problem. I am pleased to hear that it is only cosmetic problem (except for the paddle, which is already difficult for me to pull apart), but if I can keep my boat looking good with just a couple of zinc strips easily fixed in the right place, then I will give it a go.

I've been reading about this rudder pin thing too. I think that I will be ordering a spare to carry with me. Is there a suggested list of spares that I should carry?

Ger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:37 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:43 am
Posts: 130
Location: Seal Beach California
I had the same problem with the paddle. Once I got it apart a light sanding of the coroded I.D. followed by an aplication on lubricant solved the problem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
Ger wrote:
Chekika,

What is the spec. for this sacrificial anode?
Have you any more details, so that I might try it before I get this electrolytic corosion problem. I am pleased to hear that it is only cosmetic problem (except for the paddle, which is already difficult for me to pull apart), but if I can keep my boat looking good with just a couple of zinc strips easily fixed in the right place, then I will give it a go.

I've been reading about this rudder pin thing too. I think that I will be ordering a spare to carry with me. Is there a suggested list of spares that I should carry?

Ger


Bob from Hawaii lists his extensive tool selection as:

My toolkit I carry on my AI contains:

Needle-nose Vice-grips
8" Crescent wrench
9/16" box wrench
1/2" box wrench
7/16" box wrench
3/8" box wrench
Short #2 philips head screwdriver
5/16" allen wrench
3/16" allen wrench
1/8" allen wrench
Leatherman multi-tool
Lighter

All tools have a (string) loop on them to clip to a Hobie Gear Keeper (#72020001) mounted to my PFD

Also in a baggie:
Wire ties
Spare rudder pins
Spare plastic shear bolts
Spare drain plug
Small piece of 1/2" garden hose (for nose of Mirage Drive
Spare spectra line
odd and end bolts, nuts, washers & cotter pins
duct tape

All tools and small parts fit in a loc-loc waterproof plastic box in the back of the seat.

Bobs plays in the big waves in Hawaii so his list is complete...Pirate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:33 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9019
Location: Oceanside, California
Big waves and VERY long fetch to the next island in the south pacific!

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: South Florida
Ger,

I thought a zinc anode "strip" would be the best because it could be attached with aluminum rivets to the akas and Xbars. I could not find any strip anodes at my local marine store (West Marine), so I went with the smallest pencil anode they had. Here is a link: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/42332/377%20710/0/pencil%20anode/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=pencil%20anode&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=pencil%20anode&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5000&subdeptNum=4&classNum=317

I got the 1/4"x1 3/4" replacement anode. I got 6 of them--one for each aka and one each for the Xbars.

I've installed one:
Image

This is the worst aka and the corrosion under the paint is quite extensive over the length of the aka. Perhaps, the cat is already out of the bag for this aka. I'm going to take a picture of each aka and then see what they look like towards the end of the camping season here (sometime in April).

I suspect this will void my warranty on these akas.

One more point. You cannot just put any zinc on the metal you want to protect. Some zinc alloys do not protect. Therefore, I went with a zinc anode designed for that purpose. There may be better sacrificial metals for protecting aluminum--if anyone knows about that, please speak up.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:15 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
I don't think it will help in any way Keith. The photos just show paint failure leading to some small amount of oxidization of the aluminium. There appears no corrosion where the stainless pin enters. Where this occurs, the aluminium changes into a white rust like powder. In this case I would simply clean off the paint, etch the aluminium and repaint or powder coat. Reasonably cost effective and will solve the problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: South Florida
Pirate,

It is a matter of opinion. You say it is paint failure and I say it is corrosion which leads to the paint failure. I am fairly confident that there is extensive corrosion under the paint. Whether the anode helps, I don't know, but it is a fairly easy attempt to remedy the problem. The chemistry of the system (the galvanic series) may negate my efforts. Probably only the Hobie engineers really know what is going on--hopefully they do. However, I will predict, that Hobie does away from this paint system or finds a remedy for the problem. I do not think the problem is just a few isolated instances.

It is possible that my boat use is a special case since I mainly do extended camping trips. Frequently, I cannot clean the salt/saltwater from my equipment for days. That being the case, my problem (galvanic corrosion) is accelerated compared to other users. If the anode works, then it should work better for me and my type of use. So consider me and my boat a test case.

Also, in the above picture the "white" areas on the aka are due to poor color in the digital photo--taken indoors under tungsten lights w/ flash. It is not aluminum oxide, the product of corrosion. The metal where the paint has flaked off is slightly pitted and battleship grey maybe w/ some traces of white. Aluminum oxide is white and fairly insoluble, but, the water environment will likely wash it away.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:15 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
You're in a far better position to judge it Keith so I bow to your opinion. I however predict that Hobie will in the near future get their out-sourced paint job people (possibly China) to prepare the aluminium properly before painting and that will cure the premature flaking...Pirate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:30 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: South Florida
Thanks, Pirate.

Here is a slightly more technical explanation of using zinc anodes to protect metals. http://www.answers.com/topic/zinc-anodes. Interestingly the two metals involved in the galvanic cell are aluminum and steel. In the example, without the zinc, the aluminum will corrode rapidly. This gives me hope the zinc anode will work. In a galvanic cell, the method of connection between the metals is not critical; they could be connected by a copper wire or, in the Hobie AI, the connection is direct. But, whatever the connection, the corrosion occurs everywhere the less "noble" metal (aluminum) makes contact with the salt water. That is why I am not concerned that there is not severe corrosion at the point the steel pin goes in the aka. If you examine the connector hole closely, there is corrosion (pitting) there also, but any white corrosion residue is going to be scoured away due to movement of the metal parts. My front Xbar is probably in the worst shape of all the components.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:33 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: South Florida
I tried to get a better picture of that aka above. Here is a close-up with good color and definition--at least on my computer screen. The picture was taken in bright sunlight here in FL.
Image

I am amazed when I compare the pictures that this picture has an exposed aluminum area in the center (just slightly left of center) which has been blacked out by the camera in the previous picture--wow! I never expected that. In any case the picture in this post is close to correct. The pictures were taken w/ the same camera, just different conditions.

I think this picture clearly shows the extensive blistering (corrosion) which is causing the paint to chip off. Of course, you could say as Pirate has, that the aluminum was not prepared properly to accept a good paint job--probably true.

One good thing I have observed as a result of this discussion, is that the paint on the weld is "like new." I worried that if corrosion was so extensive, that the weld might be compromised. That does not seem to be the case, and perhaps suggests, that the weld is made from a "better" aluminum and less subject to corrosion.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:16 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
mmm....I now see from this better shot what you mean Keith. I would be approaching Hobie on that one. It is just not good enough and as per Matt's comments they should make good....Pirate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: South Florida
I'm thinking the same thing, Pirate.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group