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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:58 pm 
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
Roadrunner wrote:
Hobie sells a liquid UV protectant. I wonder how effective it would be on the Mylar window. It probably wouldn't hurt anyway.8)

I think it more likely the mylar and kevlar space age products just break-down from use and especially flogging RR and not so much from UV exposure. I recall when they first came out for sails many years back, they were only used in quiet weather and never to be folded or creased in any way or they would quickly deteriate and far too expensive to abuse...Pirate


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:09 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
Hobie sells a liquid UV protectant. I wonder how effective it would be on the Mylar window. It probably wouldn't hurt anyway.8)


Windsurfers have been trying for years to extend the life of monofilm and X-ply in their sails. Unfortunately only one thing has been proven to work....

Shade. :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:03 am 
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I wouldn't do that, RR. There are lots of ways of turning clear plastic into milky plastic, and you might just discover another one. I clean them with water and a soft detail rag only, not even soap.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:14 am 
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Yakaholic,

One more question... When you transport your rig, are you cinching a tie down around the rig where the window is? That would definitely lead to creases and early failure.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:46 am 
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The Dog wrote:
Yakaholic,

One more question... When you transport your rig, are you cinching a tie down around the rig where the window is? That would definitely lead to creases and early failure.


Good thinking, but no. The sail is in the bag and cinched pretty high up on the sail and also below the collar.

The failures on the panel, nor any of the window for that matter, are nowhere near the cinch points.
70% of my sailing is from a boat ramp 2 blocks from me and the cinching is minimal and loose most of the time. Freeway travel it is cinched tighter of course but again not on the window.

Sail is never left lashed on the truck overnight but always taken off and stored. Even when on vacation the sail comes down and onto the porch or into the hotel room. :shock:

I have been very cognizant from day 1 that a brittle plastic panel might be an issue. Always rolled, never folded, never stored in sun, heat, cold, or rain.

Sail treated like a real baby - except when I sail - then I want it to kick azz. :wink:

I bet if I abused or really pushed the sail, I wouldn't have gotten 2 years out of it. Like some that post here of venturing out in 30mph wind and blasting waves are what I'm talking about - thats not how I use the boat.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:22 pm 
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
The Dog wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
Hobie sells a liquid UV protectant. I wonder how effective it would be on the Mylar window. It probably wouldn't hurt anyway.8)


Windsurfers have been trying for years to extend the life of monofilm and X-ply in their sails. Unfortunately only one thing has been proven to work....

Shade. :cry:


Dog, there is a vast difference the way Windsurfer sails are exposed to the full sun as compared with our AI rigs. With the windsurfer when not being used at the beach the sail is rigged up and laying flat on the beach as it is a pain to release the wishbone boom and hand furl the sail exposing it to direct sunlight. Ours is always furled when not in use and in a vertical position so not getting the full force of the sun. If it is UV deteriation, the AI sail panels should last for years and years I reckon....Pirate


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Pirate wrote:
Dog, there is a vast difference the way Windsurfer sails are exposed to the full sun as compared with our AI rigs. With the windsurfer when not being used at the beach the sail is rigged up and laying flat on the beach as it is a pain to release the wishbone boom and hand furl the sail exposing it to direct sunlight. Ours is always furled when not in use and in a vertical position so not getting the full force of the sun. If it is UV deteriation, the AI sail panels should last for years and years I reckon....Pirate


Ummm... OK. If you say so.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:51 am 
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The Dog wrote:
Pirate wrote:
Dog, there is a vast difference the way Windsurfer sails are exposed to the full sun as compared with our AI rigs. With the windsurfer when not being used at the beach the sail is rigged up and laying flat on the beach as it is a pain to release the wishbone boom and hand furl the sail exposing it to direct sunlight. Ours is always furled when not in use and in a vertical position so not getting the full force of the sun. If it is UV deteriation, the AI sail panels should last for years and years I reckon....Pirate


Ummm... OK. If you say so.


Well we might know a thing or two about sunshine and heat over here. This is the temp here a couple of hours back in degrees Celcius.
Image
Great Hobie weather if you can stand the heat....Pirate :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:39 am 
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
I have unfurled older monofilm sails after months in storage only to have them fall apart! We all know UV exposure has a deleterious effect on monofilm but the windsurfers here were talking about this very same problem and there was unanimous agreement that monofilm degrades in time....anyway
its a wonderful material and noone wants to go back to dacron but the one limitation to M/F, we believe here, is age.

On a slightly unrelated topic...

Last week it got real windy the gusts were actually lifting the surface of the water up into the air and sending it downwind in great spumes!! We did launch on short boards and all we achieved were great speeds (no finesse!) a couple of the tenders on the big yachts flipped on their tethers and the yachties had to stay on board a while it was a bit too hazardous for them to launch into the offshore wind with their inflatables

Later on I talked with one of them and asked him what speeds he had recorded on his aenometer that day...30 knots, hitting 35 in the strongests gusts. I touched 30 knots board speed on my gps for about 4 seconds another guy 32.

I read with incredulity people that write posts in saying they sail their AI's in 30 knots of wind and have a ball!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:01 am 
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Pirate wrote:
The Dog wrote:

Ummm... OK. If you say so.


Well we might know a thing or two about sunshine and heat over here. This is the temp here a couple of hours back in degrees Celcius.
Image
Great Hobie weather if you can stand the heat....Pirate :wink:


I won't argue heat or sunshine. But comparing longevity of a windsurfing sail to that of the AI sail... That's just Apples and Oranges. Especially since they're not manufactured by the same vendor.

I've been sailing a long, long time, with the added benefit of being in the business... Too many variables aren't discussed in your initial statement. But I'd say that the UV exposure is more equivalent than you allow.

Temp here at the house is currently -3.4 C. Haven't seen 40+ C since... ohhhh... This past Summer. Heat's easy... Heat and Humidity is a different story. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 am 
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There's a lot of truth to monofilm aging while in storage. It doesn't help storing sails in high heat. It's less of an issue with some of the X-ply materials because they have a bit more elasticity and flexibility.

There are a lot of factors besides UV that affect sail life.

Philip1el wrote:
I touched 30 knots board speed on my gps for about 4 seconds another guy 32.


That's good speed... 34+ mph. Especially for what I assume were rough water conditions. I pride myself on my speed, and I've not gone a whole lot faster than that in the last year. And only on a few occasions when conditions were well suited for speed runs.

Well done.

Quote:
I read with incredulity people that write posts in saying they sail their AI's in 30 knots of wind and have a ball!!!!!


I've had an AI out in those conditions. Very wet. Sail furled several wraps. I'm sure it wasn't good for the boat or the sail... But somebody had to do it. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:23 am 
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Location: CLEARWATER, MN
Here in Minnesota, winter temperatures can reach -40F (-40C).
This is the first winter for my 2009 AI. I have been storing my
sail furled on the mast, in the mast/sail bag, in a vertical position
in my unheated machine shed.
Is this acceptable?
If I have to bring it indoors...it would have to be stored horizontally.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am
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Location: Phuket, Thailand
Hi Dog!!!

Dont worry my 4 second burst of glory didnt get me very high up on the rankings in speedsurfing.com. 1,216 down the list for 2 2 second bursts of 30 knots!!!

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd14 ... titled.jpg

No it wasnt rough. As you undoubtedly know if the waters flat you can sail overpowered for a lot longer. I covered about 30 miles that day and I wasnt on a 5m2 as I mentioned before I was actually on a 6m2.

The important thing is that we had the wind data, not from the local forecast but from boats in the bay at the time we were windsurfing.

If I had had the misfortune to have been out on my AI in similar circumstances it would only be because I somehow got caught in it. I would never venture out deliberately in such a wind other than on a board and even then at a meagre 62 kilos with some circumspection/trepidation as was the case that day.

Yup, we all have trouble with our plastic sails!! When my mylar/kevlar or whatever it is window goes on the Hobie I will just go down to the sailmakers and get a new one put in. IMHO You are correct any sailmaker worth his salt will know the correct weight of material and you take your busted sails to the sailmaker.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:59 am 
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I've never bothered to do what it takes to download to the gps-speedsurfing folks. I probably ought too, but it's a low priority. I'm not 100% sure that my old E-trex is supported.

And since my best speed ever would barely get me into the top 500...

I do most of my serious speed runs down at the north end of Padre Island. Bird Island Basin is set up really nice for it. When the winds are SE, the ripples just off the sand bar won't be much more than 3-4 inches... Even when it's blowing 40. You just have to wait for the wake from the previous guy to clear out.

My personal best is about 34.2 knots (39.4 mph). I stayed over 38 mph for about 180-200 yards. At 103 L, the board was really too big, but I've got about 20+ kgs on you. And it's an old shape with a skinny tail. The sail was an old Naish Mana 5.3. It's one of the most rock-solid foils I've flown. Still use it for speed runs. Prefer Ezzy sails for my horsing around days, though they're still plenty fast.

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:02 am 
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TIDALWAVE wrote:
Here in Minnesota, winter temperatures can reach -40F (-40C).
This is the first winter for my 2009 AI. I have been storing my
sail furled on the mast, in the mast/sail bag, in a vertical position
in my unheated machine shed.
Is this acceptable?
If I have to bring it indoors...it would have to be stored horizontally.


Yeah... I know about those temperatures. I have family in northwest Iowa and South Dakota. I don't visit much in the winter time anymore. ;-)

I think as long as you don't have stuff bouncing into the rig when it's that cold, that you should be fine.


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