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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Location: Florida
Howdie all - between the holidays and personal issues its been a while, but I'm Back :D

Now to the nitty-gritty.

My Adventure Island sail has developled a pair of quarter sized holes/rips in the see thru plastic window portion of the sail. Plus many other parts of the plastic show cracks & tears all over the place. :shock:

It is as if the plastic failed all at once - like plastic sheeting does after 1 season outside in the sun.

Sail plastic is now brittle and falling apart right before my eyes. :shock:

The sail has always been stored in the house when not in use - but it is a 2 year old sail.

What solutions do I have besides buying a whole new sail?

The cloth portion of the sail still looks super.

Does Hobie sell just the replacement window panels, or maybe just the window-sail material? I believe I could sew in the new window sections of the sail.

Wondering also if replacing the "window" plastic with regular sail cloth would impair visability too much.

The only outside & sun exposure to the sail is when sailing - which has been 2-3 times a week for the last 2 years. Been a good run anyway.

HELP!

TIA :)


Image


Image


Image


The cracking is pretty extensive and in many areas.


Last edited by Yakaholic on Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Hi Yakaholic, I think if Hobie don't have a solution, a sailmaker would easily replace the window if it is cost effective but likely a new sail would be the cheaper and more efficient way to to go. Have you tried taping the window up with the proprietary sail tapes available?..Pirate


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Pirate wrote:
Hi Yakaholic, I think if Hobie don't have a solution, a sailmaker would easily replace the window if it is cost effective but likely a new sail would be the cheaper and more efficient way to to go. Have you tried taping the window up with the proprietary sail tapes available?..Pirate


I thought about clear packing tape; but if sail tape came in a clear instead of a white that would be a great idea.

Considering all the cracks, both window sections would need a complete layer of tape. Maybe even tape on both sides.

Would look OK except up close :oops:.
Got nothing to loose in trying.

New sail every 2 years I guess is the price to play. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:19 pm 
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Sail repair tape does come in clear. It's called Monofilm Repair tape. Hit one of the windsurfing shops around you.

And X-ply material like is used on the AI is pretty common. You should find a local sail loft and talk to them.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:45 pm 
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Quote:
New sail every 2 years I guess is the price to play.


Not necessary. Window replacement are the way to go. The failure is mostly related to sun damage and to how much the sail has luffed (flapping like a flag). This brakes down the material after time.

Just about any sailmaker can do a window replacement. We do not do repair work here at the factory.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Matt I guess from Yakaholic's stance, it would come down to economics. Can you tell us what the cost of a window is, and compared with the cost of a new sail. It might be that if you add the cost to the labour of the sailmaker, it may be cheaper to go the way of a new sail....Pirate


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:32 pm 
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Pirate wrote:
Matt I guess from Yakaholic's stance, it would come down to economics. Pirate


The way I see it is that a new sail is $410.

If it costs me more than 60% in "parts & labor" - more than ~$250 I might as well buy the new sail. I still get to keep the old one which I could still possible patch up.

mmiller wrote:
The failure is mostly related to sun damage and to how much the sail has luffed (flapping like a flag). This brakes down the material after time.


Sail stored in house, not near a window, and carried in the bag while cartopped. So sun exposure is all from sailing use. But the sail does see a fair share of luffing and general use for sure.
Over time, with general use, the window developed many little creases.

I was out in 15-18knt wind in 60 degree weather a few days ago with the sailed reefed in 1/2 way. Sail was pulled tight to make progress upwind and after a few tacks and some luffing I looked up to see the window shredding/coming apart. Closer inspection showed the sail to be now very brittle and cracking.

Florida use averaging more than 10 hours a week for 2 years (well over 1,000 hours total). The sail cloth material looks absolutely perfect, as does the stitching, the eye & the hems.

A precut replacement sail window kit would be wonderful. My sail has a sticker "North Sails" on it.

Maybe Hobie can encourage its sail maker to provide a new window kit for sale?

I have sewn ripstop nylon for making stunt kites. So I may try my hand at a fix. I think the window size is a little overkill and may replace some of the window area with more durable fabric.

I'm not at all upset. The process happened very quickly and took me a bit by surprise. Just weighing options. Thankfully it's not summer yet. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:14 pm 
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This reinforced X-ply monofilm (a clear polyester film with a black thread running through it) is another choice for windows in sails. (It can be used for windsurfer sails.) It is very light in weight 4.2oz, yet quite stable and durable.

Is 5mil thickness what Hobie uses?

http://www.sailrite.com/Monofilm-5mil-X-Ply-54

54" width and sold by the running yard.

-------

My new Hobie Hobby - Sailmaking :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:36 am 
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http://www.duckworksbbs.com/sailmaking/flexi/index.htm
54" wide rolls $4.25 per foot.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:44 am 
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denizen wrote:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/sailmaking/flexi/index.htm
54" wide rolls $4.25 per foot.


Kool. But that one appears to lack the black reinforcement thread running thru it.

So far the one from sailrite @ $13.50 a yard with the thread seems like a good deal.

All those first Islands owners will be where I am sooner or later, just a matter of time - unless they don't use the boat much.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:53 am 
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Well, per usual, you are blazing the way for us all. :)

We look forward to your "Doc-u-drama" on this new adventure.

Best of luck,

Kayaking Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:20 am 
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Yes, Yakaholic, please keep us informed (with directions!) Thanks.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:21 am 
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Location: sacramento
Window failure of this type should be covered. If you start to look over the failures from 06 thru 08, they have mounted up. It is fun to sail in the right conditions. Mast, mast receiver, rudder pin, rudder change out, rudder lift kit, storage seal, fin replacments, aka release pins. I sure don't want Hobie to give up. But improvments and price increase which = relibability would be ok with me. As compared with my other half who is still paddling a 700$ model in a stright line. She is starting with I told you so. As the loading weight,time,cost,refits are starting to mount up. That window should not have the failure you have seen even with the exposure and water time you have. A new sail is probley the way to go if the 60% forumla is used. I got a lot of money and time into this hobby vs time on the water. I don't want to be negtive but 50% of the post on this site are about failures or updates. Maybe we will hear of no more window loss and yours can be the only one...I do find that the older kayak I have is faster to get in /out of the water. But far less fun. I have enjoyed the ease of trolling motor mounting, inconjuction with the Amas stability / up river. conditions. As I continue to use the sail when possible with great enjoyment. So the flexability of use is there but reliablity is in question. I have only two 1/2 summer seasons of use. Whats left to say? In 2010 I will try one more model with expectation of no upgrades or failures for five years. And more use than ever, as I will be altering my work life to part time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:28 pm 
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kepra,
I disagree that Bob's window failure is anything abnormal. If he is correct about having over 1,000 hours sailing time on that sail, the window actually did pretty well, I'd say. Clear panels just never last anywhere near as long as the rest of a sail, on all kinds of sailboats.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:56 pm 
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Tom Ray wrote:
kepra,
I disagree that Bob's window failure is anything abnormal. If he is correct about having over 1,000 hours sailing time on that sail, the window actually did pretty well, I'd say. Clear panels just never last anywhere near as long as the rest of a sail, on all kinds of sailboats.


Sorry Tom now I got to disagree. These comments compelled me to get into the loft and drag out my 30+years old Windsurfer sail. This thing has not worked for years but when it did, it raced and sailed for over 5 years continually under some of the most difficult of salt-water conditions. We have hot summers here so temps up to 100 degrees is not uncommon. When not in use the sail was furled around the mast and stored in its bag similar to the AI. I found nil sign of any cracking, crazing, discolouration or any fatigue in the clear panel at all though the sail fabric is looking a bit worse for wear.

I was under the impression that technology and time have improved the manufacturing and quality of these type of materials but apparently not if there is a general belief that a couple of years is all you can expect these days from a plastic window.....Pirate


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