Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:26 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:53 pm
Posts: 232
I agree with matt, adventure only mode does well upwind. I recently took it out with just paddle and mirage drive. Paddling upwind in 10 to 15 mph winds without the rudder I was able to move forward about 3mph. Paddling across the wind is a bit annoying because it wants to turn you into the wind, but that is probably any boat.

With the rudder and mirage drive no problems in those winds at all, complete control at any direction. Even got 4mph upwind.

I think in 30 to 35 mph winds and was getting blown out to sea I would seriously consider tossing just the amas, pulling the aka arms next to the boat and strapping the mast next to me on the side of the hull. Jettison more if I'm not able to make headway.

Maybe hobie should add grips to the side of the hull so you can hold yourself down while pedeling to be more aerodynamic, haha


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: upwind
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:05 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:51 am
Posts: 32
Location: Scotland east coast
Quote:
Jollygreen
I think in 30 to 35 mph winds and was getting blown out to sea I would seriously consider tossing just the amas, pulling the aka arms next to the boat and strapping the mast next to me on the side of the hull. Jettison more if I'm not able to make headway.


I think before tossing the amas I might try disconecting them, tie them in line and tow them.
If things got a bit more desprate before tossing anthing I would get on the radio and see if I could get a tow off anyone. Mind you I'm sitting in a nice warm house, my thought pattern might not be the same while getting blown further out to sea.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: South Florida
Gentlemen,

You are daydreaming, dangerously, to think that you should jettison the amas in 30-35 mph winds, open ocean. In such conditions, you want the most stable platform available--that has to be the AI w/o mast. Next, if you think you are in a life-threatening situation, (of course, you have long ago put your PFD on) get on your VHF radio and, using channel 16, request help indicating your position. Hopefully, you have a SPOT or EPIRB aboard and can send a distress signal. DO NOT JETTISON YOUR AKAS AND/OR AMAS.

Finally, unless you have been out in verifiable 30 mph winds, you are in a very dubious position to discuss courses of action.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:53 pm
Posts: 232
Well said.

Well, I guess I left that part out, I'm assuming you have tried radioing for help and all else has failed, with no epirb. I guess it's hard to say like you said, depends on the situation. I do like the idea of pulling them behind you, maybe try that first if the aka brace pins gave way. Maybe it would even be best to just wait it out with a sea anchor. If you looked at the forecast ahead of time and went out on low predicted winds, then the high wind storms might just be passing thru. So you could wait until help or the winds pass, hopefully you wouldn't drift too far out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: upwind
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:42 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
northsea wrote:
I think before tossing the amas I might try disconecting them, tie them in line and tow them.


Well I certainly wouldn't be the one to make stereotypical comments about the Scots :)

Seriously, towing the amas means all you get is the drag without the stability. Compared to jetisonning the mast, they are a fairly cheap price to pay for survival. Keith certainly has a point about the risk of losing stability too and he's been there, so he's not just blowing wind (pun intended).

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:26 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:39 am
Posts: 863
Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
I'm firmly with Keith here. Stability (staying upright) is the most important issue to ensure survival, and 35knots is only a breeze anyway. Furl to pocket hankerchief size, and reach if you can't work to wind. You will get there albeit a bit further or wait it out if you can't make progress. Either the sea conditions will abate sufficiently, or a back-up will arrive. Tossing the amas and akas should be proclaimed a crime...Pirate :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 5:17 pm
Posts: 203
Location: Ettalong Beach, Central Coast, Australia
Chekika wrote:
Gentlemen,

You are daydreaming, dangerously, to think that you should jettison the amas in 30-35 mph winds, open ocean. In such conditions, you want the most stable platform available--that has to be the AI w/o mast. Next, if you think you are in a life-threatening situation, (of course, you have long ago put your PFD on) get on your VHF radio and, using channel 16, request help indicating your position. Hopefully, you have a SPOT or EPIRB aboard and can send a distress signal. DO NOT JETTISON YOUR AKAS AND/OR AMAS.

Finally, unless you have been out in verifiable 30 mph winds, you are in a very dubious position to discuss courses of action.

Keith


I would absolutely agree. Even if the AI turtled, I would not be chucking the safest flotation you have. They won't sink, unless a GWS bites a hole in it. But I don't much like your chances of avoiding serious water ingress into the hull itself in sustained wild seas. I was out in verified 17.5 kts yesterday. But that's a far cry from 35mph which is 30 kts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:11 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
Hmmmmmmm. In my innocence and naivety, I've been going out on days when the forecast winds were 20-30 knots. Maybe that's why I've been getting spun to windward in gusts.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 5:17 pm
Posts: 203
Location: Ettalong Beach, Central Coast, Australia
chrisj wrote:
Hmmmmmmm. In my innocence and naivety, I've been going out on days when the forecast winds were 20-30 knots. Maybe that's why I've been getting spun to windward in gusts.


Yeah I think you will have more fun under 20kts, even under 17kts. But at one level, its nice to get good at handling stronger winds. Some time ago I bought a portable anemometer to improve the accuracy of my guesses. I don't always use it, but this week I did. I find its very hard to guess once its really belting. And the water is not always the same, under the same wind speed. This week at 17.5kts there were lots of separated waves on the bay here, not even that many waves breaking, and not much froth and spit, which on another day there could have been. I think its got a lot to do with how long its been blowing that direction, and in the case of the bay, which way the tide is going.

But on the one occasion I wanted to go downwind, and I was surprised how much the AI resisted, eventually I furled a bit more.

Geoff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:49 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: South Florida
It s tough to correctly estimate wind velocity. An 8-knt wind exerts almost no noticable pressure on your body and face. A 16-knt wind exerts plenty of pressure. The fact is that perceived pressure is going up much faster than the wind velocity. That is because the pressure will go up about 4-fold when the wind doubles from 8- to 16-knt wind. And if the wind triples from 8- to 24-knts, the pressure will go up about 9 times as great. So, because the pressure is going up much faster than actual wind velocity, your impression is that the "wind has increased greatly." The average person will tend to significantly overestimate wind speeds above 20 knts.

Here in FL we experience hurricanes occasionally. Let me assure you, that unless you have actual experience, you have no idea about the kind of pressure an 85 knt (100 mph) wind can exert. It can literally knock you over, yet the velocity is only 10 times higher wind than that little 8 knt breeze. The wind pressure, however, has gone up more like 100 fold.

Keith

_________________
I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 5:17 pm
Posts: 203
Location: Ettalong Beach, Central Coast, Australia
Chekika wrote:
The fact is that perceived pressure is going up much faster than the wind velocity. That is because the pressure will go up about 4-fold when the wind changes from 8- to 16-knt wind.


Yes that's kinda obvious yet I had not made the connection. Its the pressure that impresses you.

Geoff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Terrigal NSW, Australia
Geoff wrote:
And the water is not always the same, under the same wind speed. This week at 17.5kts there were lots of separated waves on the bay here, not even that many waves breaking, and not much froth and spit, which on another day there could have been. I think its got a lot to do with how long its been blowing that direction, and in the case of the bay, which way the tide is going.
Geoff.


Gotta agree. On the Hawkesbury/Broken Bay, there can be serious waves and chop when the tide's coming in, even with zero wind.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group