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 Post subject: TI ama dropping off aka.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Yesterday sailing our TI in 15-20 knot winds (our first sail in decent wind) the windward ama kept dropping out of the aka end.
The bungee prevented it from dropping off altogether but I wonder what would happen if the bungee failed! :shock:
Each time it dropped a wave would eventually pound it back in.
Long term this can't be good.
This is a problem I had not experienced with the AI. I'm wondering if the increased weight/length of the TI ama will require a better way of locking it to the aka?
Anyone else with this problem?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:37 am 
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Location: Point Lookout, Maryland
How are the bungies holding up? We've had some similar issues with our TI amas during heavy chop and lots of pounding waves, so I've been keeping an eye on the bungies that hold them on - we may replace them with line of some sort when the elastic wears out.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:28 am 
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I was wondering the same thing and have witnessed this as well...Does anybody have a quick fix that one could employ on the water if one of the retaining bungees were to snap?

-Charlie


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:01 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Tie it back on with bungees, line or duct tape?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
Lash it on, Hawaiian style.

The bungee system is lame, but it allows us to fold the Amas in, which is good.

Those bungees should only fail if they are cut or brittle w age. More likely they will stretch out and cause you grief first.

If they are flopping, all you can do is tighten them. Take some slack out. Or replace with a sturdier grade.

I'm convinced there should be 2 cords for each Aka, crisscrossed. Even on the AI.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
I like the simplicity of the bungee system. 8)
It has proved very reliable on the AI.
Shortening the bungee just makes it more difficult to install. The existing length seems OK as it is stretched almost to capacity when clipped on to the eyelet post.
I think the simplest solution would be to size up to a heavier duty bungee which will handle the TI's ama greater length/weight.
I'll try that. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:32 am 
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
Have you checked your ama to see if it has water in it?

Since I trailer my boats I almost never take them apart so I was really surprised when I did and found I had several pounds of water in one of them.

Just a thought.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:57 pm
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Location: Western Australia
Josh had a solution recently on "Yakass" he had double bungees on each attachment point.

see http://yakass.net/

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:04 pm
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Location: Wilmington, North Carolina
I haven't had a scrap of trouble out of my bungees to the Amas' and these are 2008 and original. The boat is used almost weekly in some big offshore swell and waves in 15 knot+ winds and for 20+ miles at a time.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:12 am 
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Location: South Florida (Coral Springs)
The last couple of times I was out I also noticed the amas on my TI dropping down quite a bit through the chop. It did cause me concern, but fortunately, they haven't dropped so far to cause the akas to completely come out of its insert. I think a sturdier bungee may be a good idea. However, does sturdier mean thicker? If so, would it stay on the small bungee retaining screw (name?) on the akas?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
I've been out with my AI (and now TI) in conditions than no sane person would have chosen to be in, with wind waves over 7' and with steady winds (for at least a few minuets) over 25 knots and gusts well over 30 knots. Each of these were on days with forecasts and current conditions well within the AI & TI's recommended operating conditions (No Small Craft Advisories) and far enough from shore (+2-6 miles) for no safe "running" from them.

At times during these conditions, the ama have "galloped" like a horse, being pulled 1/2 way off (or more) by the waves, then slamming back home. That said, I have never had an aka/ama disconnect! And I can't recall ever hearing of one on this forum or any other.

You'd be amazed how well these little plastic boats, held together with bungee cords, plastic shear pins and little brass inserts, do to keep us safe. Just remember to return the favor and check and tighten (and replace when worn) all the little pieces/parts that hold her together, often. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:29 am 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Dosjers - definitely no water in the ama. I first noticed that the fit on the TI ama was not as tight as the AI's when wheeling it assembled to the water for its maiden voyage. One of the ama was dropping off the aka collar then.

Jms - Thanks for the link. 8) I like that solution better than a thicker bungee.

Element - I haven't had any problems with my AI's either. The aka collar fit into the ama is much tighter.

Flaneur -you might want to try the double bungee solution as well! :wink:

Bob- I've been out in 30 knots but hadn't experienced this with my AI's. The TI fit is nowhere near as tight between aka and ama. I agree with your comments re the toughness of these craft! Good to know that the ama drooping is more of an annoyance than a major problem.

I am going to add the extra bungee. For those not familiar with how the fittings work check out Roadrunners excellent post here:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8922
Funny how similar Yakass's solution is to a fitting mod I proposed back in 08. These fittings are easy to drill once removed. Adding the second bungee is a simple fix! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:07 pm
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Location: Saint Johns, Florida
Stringy,

It looks like another QC issue with the Tandem.

My bungees are so tight that one person helping me could not get it over the knob that secures it. Luckily I don't take mine apart very often.

It sounds like if we split the diference between our two boats we would both be in better shape.

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St. Johns, Florida
2010 TI
2008 AI


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2761
Location: Kailua 96734
If the bungees are loose or getting really fatigued, the Amas can pop out. I experienced this on a few of my initial sails after purchasing a used AI.

Usually happens in a stiff wind, when side swells are hitting the boat. The Akas are flexing, and the side to side rocking, combined with swells hitting the outriggers can torque the connection just as the bungee stretches out. At first, you will experience the collar popping 1/2 way out and this is really the time to fix it. Usually the rear one, which is shallower, wants to hop out first.

It believe it happens more so with the tramps set tightly in place, because they are now pulling the Aka bars toward each other and influencing pressures at the collar connection. I'll have to roll them up and see if they react differently.

I repaired the bungees long ago and my Amas are OK, but with the tramps on they still flop around more than I care for. That great double bungee mod should cure everything. I see no reason these mods would not help the bouncing TI Amas as well. Mahalo once again to the Aussie innovators!

Wrapping a thin layer of rescue tape around the Aka end caps may enhance the grip too.

Again, I get the impression that the AI tramps are pulling at the collars, causing more of a tendency for the Amas to wobble out of place whenever the bungee is stretched.

Have other tramp owners noticed this?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Nohuhu,
This is on a brand new TI so bungees aren't fatigued. In my experience the tension on the tramps actually makes the aka/ama connection tighter. Never an issue on my AI's.

Dosjers,
You could be right about the QC! There probably was a rush to get these out. Not that I'm complaining! :wink: I have been waiting for the TI ever since the AI was released.
My TI bungees are a tight fit and yet the ama drops. Hoping the double bungee solution will work. :)


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