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TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=33638		 Page 3 of 12
Author:  mmiller [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
vorticity wrote:
Just checked my 2010 AI (build April 2010) no weld in the back. Did re-tighten all screws and bolts. Did not see any cracks in weld. Not sure if I should be concerned.


The AI has not experienced this sort of problem... It was changed to the TI style plate and weld as a simplification for production... not because it was needed.
Author:  vorticity [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
OK thanks Matt.

Vorticity
2010 AI
Author:  stringy [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
mkrawats wrote:

It would be very unfortunate if the mast bearing plate were to break again and the mast were to fall and injure any of my passengers.


Marc,
We were in strong winds at the time and the mast stayed upright. Your experience sounds similar. I think it unlikely the mast would drop due to the design of the mast cup. In fact, if I had to, I reckon I could have continued sailing if I lashed the mast to the x-brace. As you found out it's great to have that backup power source though! :wink:
Author:  mkrawats [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
The roller furling collar appears to be slipping upward on the TI mast. Could this be a contributing factor to the xbar's mast bearing plate failure?

See http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=34816

Image
Author:  Yakass [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
I haven't read all replies, but that cracking sound that occurs you mentioned is most likely due to the x-bar braces not being tight enough. So when you change tack, the sail swings from one side to the other and jerks the whole assembly left or right. I have no doubt this is why so much pressure was put on the furling roller assembly.

I have experienced this loud cracking noise on several TIs. It took me a while to figure it out. A close inspection of akas provided the answer. if there is evidence of it moving left or right, that is the source of the cracking sound and unless you tighten the hex nuts on the braces ASAP, then further problems are likely to occur eventually.
Author:  SeeSharkGoFaster [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE AND BROKEN MAST!
I was out today in 20 mph wind and heard a thunk coming from the front of the boat. A short time later I heard a VERY loud bang and watched in horror as my mast & sail crashed into the water. Looks like the xbar catastrophically failed resulting in the mast being unable to handle the shock.

The crossbar is definitely not the new variety with welds in the front and back.

Massive hold in the front of the forward crossbar:
Image

Broken mast brace:
Image


Seeing my beautiful carbon fiber mast in this condition makes me want to cry:
Image

Thank goodness for mirage drives to get me home!

I also noticed that the entire crossbar shifted about a half an inch to the leeward side of the boat.

Looks like others have experienced the same thing although I haven't read anything about any other broken masts. I already have an e-mail in to the dealer. Hopefully I'm about to see another example of Hobie standing behind their awesome product. I love my boat and want to get back out on the water!!
Author:  stringy [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
Ouch! I feel your pain SSGF. :cry:
Looks like we were lucky our mast stayed upright, as we had no mast damage.
I'm sure Hobie will respond quickly to this (as they did for us) and your TI will be as good as new again. :)
Author:  mkrawats [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
Wow. I can't believe what happened to your mast. I think this could be the first TI mast failure reported on these forums.

The forward cross bar and its mast collar absorb a lot of pressure while under sail. We are all looking forward to any future improvement to the welding of these 2 parts. Matt, any ETA when this will become available to the TIs?
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
Code:
Matt, any ETA when this will become available


Not sure if this has hit production on the TI yet, but I'll find out.
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
Yes, the revised bearing plate through the beam / weld system is in production for the TI. Been a month or so they say.
Author:  sun E sailor [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
HOLY !@#$%)?(*&!,
That does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling at all! Just glad to hear that you're alright and no one was hurt. That must have been a shocker :shock: :o :shock: to say the least!

Other than the obvious need for a stronger weld (which apparently Hobie is already addressing). What is going on here is like I said earlier in another post.

Now that our TI's have been out there for over a year and we're putting them through all sorts of "aquatic gymnastics", we're beginning to discover the inherent weaknesses of a relatively newly designed boat. As they have demonstrated in the past, I'm certain Hobie takes these kinds of issues very seriously and will work swiftly to find stronger and better solutions. As long as no one gets bonked in the head, eventually we will all (the TI community and Hobie) will benefit from these R&D growing pains.
Author:  sun E sailor [ Sat May 12, 2012 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
I was out sailing today with my friend Marc. We had moderate winds (15-20) and my sail was partially furled to the first batten. Just as I passed under the Jensen Beach Causeway Bridge and turned to make a tack I heard a loud POP and then saw my mast lift up and fall over. Fortunately it fell into the water away from me and not on me. It was pretty scary and upsetting to see this happening to my boat.

I immediately set my anchor, called Marc on my VHF and assessed the situation. After furling the sail back by hand, I tied the mast to the boat, got my lines tidied up and Marc towed me back to shore sailing with me pedaling.

I know this has happened to other people with older TI's and I have been keeping a very close eye on the welds to see if any cracks were developing but I never saw anything wrong in this area prior to todays event.

I have seen the new, stronger versions on all of the the 2012 TI's. The new Forward Crossbar Assembly units have a bearing plate going all the way through the Crossbar with welds on both sides, instead of just along one edge as was the case with mine. The old style Forward Crossbar Assembly is a defective design and I was just lucky that when my mast fell it didn't land on my head or worse.

I think Hobie should send the new one to everyone who has older style before someone really gets hurt. In the meantime, I've put in a request with my dealer and Hobie to send me a new replacement unit ASAP and I'm sure it will be fine.

Image

Image
Author:  NOHUHU [ Sat May 12, 2012 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
sun E sailor wrote:
Just as I passed under the Jensen Beach Causeway Bridge and turned to make a tack I heard a loud POP and then saw my mast lift up and fall over.
Was it high tide by any chance? :wink:

(Sorry Sunny - glad your OK!)
Author:  stringy [ Sun May 13, 2012 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
It's a shock when it happens isn't it sEs? :shock:
I'm glad to see you weren't hurt and no further damage was done.
I'd be interested to know the year of your TI.
As Matt stated earlier in this thread the cracking was supposed to be due to an early production fault. Mine was an early TI but we are seeing more failures being reported which makes me wonder if it isn't a design fault?
The publicised withdrawal of BB from this years EC was also caused by a failed bearing plate.
Hobie were great at promptly replacing my crossbar but it was with the unreinforced version.
Reading posts of more plate failures is not encouraging and as I'm often sailing offshore I'd like to be sure that Hobie are confident it is still due to an early production fault.

Hobie- Matt, BC or JB, any official response to this?
Author:  fusioneng [ Sun May 13, 2012 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
sun E sailor :
I also had a very early TI (I suspect from the first production runs). I noted when I picked up the boat originally that the X-bar weld was cracked and noted it to the dealer when I purchased the boat (see earlier in this post). He said if it failed Hobie would replace it (under warranty). It finally failed a year or so later and was replaced by Hobie.

I believe the problem was the welding process that was used in the very beginning was flawed (yours may have also been one of this era). They later got the welding down better and the replacement X-bar I had (not the very latest mod with 2 welds (thru) worked fine. I'm glad to hear all the new boats have the problem solved once and for all with two welds.
I think you were lucky, several people suffered more damage as a result. Fortunately it is a pretty easy fix, and the new bar (from Hobie) is pretty easy to just bolt on. Hopefully yours was the last out there in the field with that early flaw.
Good luck
Bob
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