Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:00 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 148 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 245
Location: Plant City, Fl.
Everyone, Thanks for all your research on this failure. As you can see from the picture mine has the cracks, and I thought it was from the mast cup breaking loose but maybe the cracks were there before that? My hull that Hobie replaced was:
HCC is the Manufacturing Company (Hobie Cat Company)
P............ Model (Tandem Island)
0074........ Serial Number (0074)
D........... Month of Manufacture (April)
0............ Year of Manufacture (2010)
10........... Model Year (2010)
Again Thanks to all for your input on this. I feel much safer with the new XBAR type and will put it on tomorrow, and take the old one back to Andy to see about the warranty claim.

Image

_________________
“Remember life is short- eat dessert first.”
The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:35 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
I agree with Brendan and fusioneng. Hopefully this problem is limited to just a few units. Hobie has always done the right thing as evidenced this time by their redesigning and improving the new crossbar assembly.

Before the last few days of this posts development, if you had the old style crossbar it was a "wait and see attitude" with too many variables based on the age of your boat, how often you went out, under what sailing conditions, production runs, and improved welding techniques that could probably not be recognized by most people as looking any different from the previous ones.

Now we at least know what to look for and how to identify it. The average person can easily just look at the weld to see if there's a thin grey line developing, indicating the probability of a crack, then take it to their dealer for closer examination or replacement.

My intentions were always based on the desire for all of us to be as safe as possible on the water and proactive through these continuing discussions.

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:06 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8899
Location: Oceanside, California
bosab wrote:
AARGGH,
You made me look!
Port side underneath. Small crack starting. Matt?


Cracks or failures should be reported to your dealer. They can contact our warranty department via claim or other for review.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:00 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8899
Location: Oceanside, California
Thinking about this again...

The weld style is not the indication of a potential problem. The stiffness of the block connection (below the beam) and the tension of the crossbar connection fittings are what make a beam loose and cause excessive movement... causing stress on the welds.

The beam should not be shifting back and forth under sail. That causes excessive stress on the weld.

Check the crossbar fasteners to the block (see image above... block / spacer below the cracked weld). Check the fastener tightness at the outer ends of the crossbars.

I believe that the beam movement is a contributing factor here.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
larryhts,

Glad to hear you got your new crossbar. Mine came today and I'm just waiting to hear from Brendan regarding a question I now have about weather or not we should reassemble everything using blue loc-tite on all the bolts?

Good luck, and I'm glad everything worked out for the best.

Happy sailing :)

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:06 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
Just heard from Brendan. Looks like using the blue loc-tite in reassembly is the order of business. I hope to be on the water this weekend.
Thanks again Hobie :).

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:08 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 245
Location: Plant City, Fl.
Thanks sun E sailor, I just put the new one on and I didn't use the loctight, I had some right there on the bench and I thought about it but I will just make it part of my maintenance checks. Hope you get your on in time for the weekend. See you on the water....Larry

_________________
“Remember life is short- eat dessert first.”
The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:30 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:02 am
Posts: 322
Location: Cape Coral, FL
I'm not so sure about this being limited to the first few boats. I have boat 1440 built in February, 2011 and I have cracks. Last time I was out I heard clicking noises when the mast shifted from side to side (winds were 3~5).

Pics:
Image

Image

I wonder if it will hold in light to moderate winds or if I should stay in dry dock till it's replaced...

Cheers (suck, actually),

j

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 245
Location: Plant City, Fl.
J , Does yours have the weld on both sides front and back?

Larry

_________________
“Remember life is short- eat dessert first.”
The world is 70% water – So that means we should spend 70% more time sailing than mowing lawns!
Larry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:02 am
Posts: 322
Location: Cape Coral, FL
larryhts wrote:
J , Does yours have the weld on both sides front and back?

Larry


No, Larry, it does not. It is only welded on the front. It does- did- look like a great weld job, very clean and smooth. It looks like the weld is failing due to stress rather than poor craftsmanship. I'm kind of relieved to have it fail now instead of next year during the Everglades Challenge :? . However, if you sail hard, be sure to check the weld frequently.

cheers,

j

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
Well mine is on and it looks great, I just finished up.

Now, if it would only stop raining I could finish Laura's "Honey-Do" list by getting the last coat of paint on our pool deck and mow the lawn. If I get all that done tomorrow I'll can go test this puppy out on Saturday!

Larry if I were you, I'd try to take the bolts out and put the loc-tite on them. There's only 6, you just have to be careful taking out the 2 center ones that go through the crossbar. The nuts below are set in plastic and when my socket screw broke several months ago and the V brace had to be dissembled, the nuts did not hold.



j,

Sorry to see this. I'm no expert in aluminium welding but have you looked at it closely with a magnifying glass or tapped on the crossbar to hear if it has a buzzing sound? fusioneng would be much better at looking at these pictures and commenting. The grey line you're seeing looks just like the one I saw on my old crossbar weld before it broke, but I mistook it for wear.

The "clicking noises" you hearing when you tack could coming from any number of things. This has been discussed at length and there's several different opinions about the source.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=36284

I'm sure you've already checked and tightened all the hex head bolts that Matt just talked about today in this post. If that's not it, then my guess is the V-Brace Assembly and the socket screw needs attention.

Good luck.

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:56 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:32 pm
Posts: 86
Location: tampa, fl
I am sure that other post covers it but my mast noise was loose screws in the mast support post located in the bottom of the mast receiver. You have to carefully remove the four screws, the support post, clean out the opening and replace all with the locktite material. Looks easy but you need a long screwdriver and something to lower the screws into place with(grabber)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:14 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:02 am
Posts: 322
Location: Cape Coral, FL
You guys had me concerned that I was neglectful about maintaining my boat... So I checked all the nuts, bolts, and screws and found that everything was indeed still tight. Which means, at least to me, that I broke it by sailing it.

I'm just wondering exactly which conditions were to much...

Also, does the old x bar get returned to hobie? If not, I might make a TI3. All I would need are the clamps that hold the x bar down.

Cheers,
J

_________________
2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
the TI3 rear ama mod


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:03 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
bosab wrote:
I am sure that other post covers it but my mast noise was loose screws in the mast support post located in the bottom of the mast receiver. You have to carefully remove the four screws, the support post, clean out the opening and replace all with the locktite material. Looks easy but you need a long screwdriver and something to lower the screws into place with(grabber)

Well that's interesting :? yet another source for the elusive "popping sound" that comes from the Mast/Crossbar/V-Brace vicinity.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=36284
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=37312&p=152078#p152078
I think it's best to keep a eye on all the bolts (above and below) that keeps these parts tight and in place. I'm using Blue Loc-Tite now on everything.

Re: Reinstalling the Support Post:
Before I installed my new crossbar I also took out the (four screws) and the s.s. Support Post. Then with masking tape, I attached a 16" long 1/2" wood dowel to the end of the Post. I dabbed the ends of the four screws with Blue Lok-Tite and easily lowered the whole thing back down into the Mast Receiver. Once in place I just pulled the dowel and tape out. More better :wink:.

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:21 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Palm City, Florida
kayakman7 wrote:
You guys had me concerned that I was neglectful about maintaining my boat... So I checked all the nuts, bolts, and screws and found that everything was indeed still tight. Which means, at least to me, that I broke it by sailing it.

I'm just wondering exactly which conditions were to much...

Also, does the old x bar get returned to hobie? If not, I might make a TI3. All I would need are the clamps that hold the x bar down.

Cheers,
J

kayakman7
If everything was tight that's good to know.

At this point I don't believe we have a definitive explanation as to what exactly causes the weld on the bearing plate to break. Hobie has since corrected this problem with their new design and that's what is most important.

What I've been trying to establish is how the average person can determine beforehand, if their old style crossbar is about to fail. I should think Hobie would be interested to have your crossbar to see if this "grey line" is actually a crack in the weld or not.

However, you did not break it by sailing it; it broke because somethings wrong, it's not your fault. As for "which conditions are too much..." I believe the general rule of thumb is when one begins to see the whole ama a couple of inches under water. It's also been well discussed about the benefit of when to reef your sail. Again, I wish for all of us to be as safe as possible on the water and proactive through these continuing discussions.

_________________
Sun E Sailor
Ezra Appel
Palm City, Florida
2014 Tandem Island


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 148 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group