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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:51 am 
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Stringy/Matt,
Thanks Hobie for getting the parts out so quickly. They arrivied at the dealer yesterday, but I'm in NYC until next week visiting my children. The repair will have to wait till I get back.
I'm still wondering if there are one, or two lowerer Socket Screws that will have to be replaced, and weather or not to use loctite when we seat them back in?
I think the idea of two locknuts is good (if there's room).

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:00 am 
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sun E sailor wrote:

I'm still wondering if there are one, or two lowerer Socket Screws that will have to be replaced, and weather or not to use loctite when we seat them back in?
I think the idea of two locknuts is good (if there's room).


I'm sure there is only the forward socket screw. Your 4th pic looks to confirm this. The rear hump is not tapped as far as I can see and there is no ledge on the mast tube base, probably because it would be very difficult getting access to that screw. Not too sure about the loctite as it could make it hard to remove a broken screw. Maybe use Loctite Blue?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:06 am 
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mmiller wrote:
New part number as shown... only for the TI.

Thanks for confirming this Matt. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:44 pm 
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Yesterday, my TI's mast cup screw broke while sailing, causing the mast to tip almost 45 degrees :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:20 am 
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That must have been wild. Hope it's an easy repair Bob. Even if it's just a sheared screw, better check for leaks around the mast base.

Was the GoPro rolling?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:39 am 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Was the GoPro rolling?
Why YES it was! :) But it wasn't pointed strait ahead then, but the mast did pop into view when the screw broke. Looking at the video, I guess the mast wasn't quite at the 45 degree it seemed to the hull, but 45 degrees to the water. Still, not a good sight when sailing!

Kelly's sending me replacement part(s). I don't think anything was loose before it broke, looking at the nut still partway down the broken off screw. I had checked that everything was tight just last month. Nothing seemed loose then. The broken off screw bottom did take a plastic divot out of the bottom side of the mast cup. Not too bad considering what gymnastics that mast cup must of done.

I have been only taking out the TI in 15k or less forecast winds, as I don't like fighting with the larger, more flexible mast and sail in higher winds. Reefing the sail early on in 20k winds was very difficult. I could only do it while stopping in irons, unlike sailing in an AI. I mainly use the TI for sailing with my wife or with people new to sailing or the AI/TI, before going out solo in AI's.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Is it the same break as seen here Bob?
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=34466
I wonder if there are obvious differences between the original and now upgraded socket screw? I still haven't got the upgraded screw. Your incident has reminded me to chase it up again! :wink:
Let us know how you go getting the stub out.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:19 pm 
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stringy wrote:
Is it the same break as seen here Bob?

Yep, identical.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Quote:
I wonder if there are obvious differences between the original and now upgraded socket screw?


Grade of stainless and rolled vs cut threads. Both increased the shear strength. The head is a slot instead of as allen hex because it is a custom made screw.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Nothing like an unscheduled mast-stepping out on the water. :shock:

I guess this is the part you really WANT to fail, compared to others.

Bob - did you remove the mast out there? Was it difficult to do with things twisted up?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:00 pm 
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NOHUHU wrote:
Bob - did you remove the mast out there? Was it difficult to do with things twisted up?
Yep, it wasn't too difficult, I slowly rolled the sail in and wound up the reefing line. I did warn the backseat person to watch out so I didn't take him out at the same time! :o

I then bungeed it down across the aka and pedaled around for another hour or so (frequently checking for water in the hull).

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:50 am 
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Bob,

From what you describe this sounds exactly like what happened to my boat. How's it going, have you gotten the new Screw Socket yet? I eventually repaired mine and have not had any problems since.

When I first reported about this problem in June I felt strange. Perhaps it was just an isolated occurrence to my boat. But now that our TI's have been out there for a while and we're sailing the heck out of them, this and other mast support problems are beginning to occur :roll: . I'm still not entirely sure what causes the Screw Socket to break, but this is what I learned in the process.

To start, what makes this had to diagnose is that prior to the Screw Socket actually breaking, I didn't (see) anything wrong. None of the nuts/bolts or Turnbuckles (appeared) to be loose. Even if they were loose, it was impossible for me to apply enough force to replicate the same conditions that are applied to the Mast Receiver when the boat is under sail to actually see something moving, ie. to know what to tighten. However... when I was out sailing and come about, I was (hearing) what has now become the much talked about "popping, thunking and knocking sounds" coming from the forward Cross Bar area. At the time, I just didn't understand the significance of what was taking place.

I can't say for certain that my forward Cross Bar was loose and causing the similar sounds mentioned in these excellent posts; it could be related?
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=37312
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=37442

I saw no wear marks on my Cross Bar near the Clamps to indicate there was any movement or slippage. I think it is possible that both conditions can produce the same sounds, and this too is possibly a contributing factor as to what's causing the Screw Socket to eventually break. However, the top of the V-Frame assembly is not directly connected to the Cross Bar Clamps. It is attached to a brass insert in between the two the bolts that come down from the top for the Clamps.
Image

My hunch is that this problem is more related to the Turnbuckles going out of adjustment due to the general flexing and expansion and contraction of the hull, that occurs over time.

If someone is hearing these kinds of sounds, it's a pretty good indication that one part of the V-Frame system is loose and therefore other parts are now being put under more stress; eventually something's going to break. Get it checked out and fixed ASAP. I don't think it's the fault of the screw at the bottom of the V-Frame Base per se. The Screw Socket is just the weakest point that will bear the most stress when either the Turnbuckles are not pressing down enough against the base, or the lok-nut on top of the Screw Socket is not tight enough, or the Screw Socket itself is loose. Everything may (look) and feel tight, but IMO the only warning one would have as to there being a serious condition prior to the screw actually breaking is what your hearing when you go sailing.

To replace the broken Screw Socket I had to first remove the forward Cross Bar, Mast Receiver and the V-Fame assembly. Hobie sent me a new Mast Receiver (Thank You Very Much) because one of the nuts that a socket bolt goes into thru the Cross Bar, was spinning instead of holding fast. I think this is a bad design that doesn't allow for easy removal. The nut should be assessable from other angles.
Image

Image

Image

Eventually I was able to get to the broken Screw Socket which came out easily with a pair of vice grips. It didn't appear to have been installed with loc-tite.
Image

In reassembling, I used blue loc-tite when I inserted the new Screw Socket into the brass insert at the base of the hull. According to Matt, there are no torque wrench settings for the Turnbuckles, but his advice was very helpful :) .

I basically put everything back together by turning the Turnbuckles until the V-Frame Base just started pressing down over the Screw Socket. I then used the lok-nut and Turnbuckles together to press the V-Frame Base against the base of the Mast Receiver until it was tight up against the bottom of the hull. I expanded the Turnbuckles just slightly more and stopped. For now I'm using two 1/4 -20 stainless nuts with loc-tite, tightened against each other instead of a lok-nut on top of the Screw Socket. Every things been holding tight so far and I'm no longer hearing any popping or thunking sounds coming from that area when I go sailing.

Image

I'm glad that Hobie now has a new/stronger screw for this repair. It's Part # 88991215 but it's not listed in the Parts Catalogue. It looks like this. Note: The top of the screw is slotted not "hexed" :lol: like the old version.

Image

I believe it replaces Part# 79528001 which is listed in the Parts Catalogue and described as: Screw 1/4 - 20 X 1-1/4 SCKT SET.

I hope this information serves to helps others. I think there's more than one variable involved here, which makes the repair slightly more complicated in terms of getting the right tightness on all the moving parts.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:03 am 
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Thanks for the details of your fix. I'm still waiting for the part, but should arrive soon direct from Hobie, so it should be the new part. I was having minor noises from the front aka area from the start, but also had some problems deploying and reefing the sail from day one. I guess now I can adjust the mast base better while reassembling and see if it works better.

I still enjoy by TI, but wish it was better behaved like my AIs. I've not noticed others complain about mast/sail handling compared to the AI, so it may just be this boat, which hopefully I can correct.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:17 pm 
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If you mean the resistance while furling, most TI owners here that I know have complained about it. Having seen it, I didn't sense it was due to looseness of their mast assemblies.

Maybe just having so much more sail, lines and cleats makes it difficult. Even on the AI, the first foot of inner sail tends to stick.

TI owners can confirm - is Bob alone in this? You guys think it's time to put winches on the islands? ;-)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:59 pm 
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NOHUHU,

We don't need no stinkin winches, but a Wench, arragh, now that's a different story. Don't ye rhready have a few too many Wenches on yore island Matey? :shock:

According to a dictionary I just (happen) to have stumbled upon, a Wench is:

" A Beautiful Woman, the object of a pirate's affection, usually found in sea faring ports, in the back of the kitchen scrubbing pots, passed out under a pirate's ship's deck, or tending to the wash. She engages particularly in duties concerning domestic affairs, kitchen cleaning, or the serving of ale".

Hummm, "or the serving of ale"... Now we're getting somewhere :lol: .

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