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 Post subject: Lee helm AI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:07 pm
Posts: 169
On receiving my new replacement hull I couldn't wait to try it out. The maiden voyage was in light winds of 5-10knts on Sydney habour and a little offshore. I was keen to try out the new steering system and get to know the new boat. My first observation was that when boarding you have to climb over the new tiller, no big problem unless the optional extra knob is fitted($12). When seated the knob is strategicly located under your left thigh so I removed the knob immediately. The new drink bottle holder is a welcome addition however it presents another obstacle if you board on the port side. I guess Hobie want me to board on the starboard side, but it's like mounting a horse from the wrong side, anyway no big deal.

Underway I noticed the boat tracks better and the new tiller feels better in your hand. Enough wind came in to sail so off we went to windward in 7knts and smooth seas, rudder good after a while decided to head offshore a little and hope to pick up more breeze. Helm is fairly neutral and steering well. Headind back with the breeze 10-12knt wind and gentle seas I found the steering on port tack good but touchy when surfing. Jibbing to starboard tack was met with considerable lee helm and attention was needed even in light winds and again steering "twitchy" being small corrections were exagerated even at moderate speeds. This is not right - in strong winds you couldn't control the boat with steering like this. Into the first beach to check out what's going on I found the steering line loose on the starboard side and tightened it up. Checked rudder action and as expected it was stiffer, so let's try that. The twitchiness had gone but lee helm down wind was still evident, so let's try raking the rudder back - a bit better - let's try no centerboard - no difference. So it's still a work in progress to get the steering right but that's ok I expect to have to get to know a new boat, it's part of the fun. I'm soon on holidays and going sailing for a week or 2 and look forward to getting to know the boat.

I have a 2012 main hull and everthing else is 2010, any remarks re this combo and lee helm are welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee helm AI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1773
Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Dave, we use the same dealer and I can tell you from my experience that whoever sets the steering up on the new hulls hasn't got a clue. Mine was so loose that it had 45° of free play on either side of neutral. Much better after I set it up properly.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee helm AI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 1443
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Has anyone told the dealer? Better to do it so subsequent customers benefir from your experiences.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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 Post subject: Re: Lee helm AI
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1773
Location: Calga NSW, Australia
Well it's not rocket surgery. I think it's more a lack of care than a lack of knowledge.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee helm AI
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:02 am
Posts: 324
Location: Cape Coral, FL
it's not entirely the dealer's fault. spectra line will stretch when it's new.

i installed brand new line in mine and used 7/64" dynasteel because it was available locally. i have tightened it twice, maybe three times so far. other issues i have noticed:
kayakman7 wrote:
cliffs2yak wrote:
Looks like the line sizes are:

1.75mm Spectra for my rudder lines on my Adventure.

2.2mm Spectra for my rudder lines on my TI.

After inspecting my rudder lines this weekend, I didn't find any signs of damage. Even were there were knots to accommodate the new rudder. Will keep a small spool of the stuff in my ditch bag just in case.

cheers!

cliffs2yak


Wow, no wear at all? After 3 months use mine looked like they were attacked by an anger spouse with 12 grit sand paper. That, combined with all the knots, pushed me to fully replace the rudder lines. I made a very significant safety improvement when I did it. Hobie has three individual sections of rudder line and if one loop falls off a tiller post, the whole system fails. This happened to me and natural not on a nice day. The loops in my rudder lines for the tiller posts are looped though each other and crimped in place. So it is one complete line rather than three separate pieces. see pic...

Image

I also added a closed eyelet, the OEM hook rotated on me once, the rudder lines fell off, and I lost steering.

j


and

kayakman7 wrote:
I've been having issues with my rudder off and on since getting my boat six months ago.

As I've dissected the rudder system and the control lines in greater and greater detail, I've found that the knots used on the control lines are not appropriate and in general not safe for long term use.

The most widely used knot is the overhand knot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhand_knot. The key problem with the overhand knot is it's strength. It causes a 50% reduction in line strength due uneven wearing and stretching. Over time, this will increase until the line FAILS.

Much better would be the figure eight knot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure-eight_knot_%28ropes%29. It causes a 20% reduction in line strength.
or
The blood knot which is ideal for slippery line like spectra or monofilament line and causes a 20% reduction in line strength.

The bowline, double bowline, double fisherman's knot, carrick bend, sheetbend, and double sheetbend could also be considered.

I found that overhand knots were used in the running length of a line merely to shorten the line. This is something that a knot should NEVER be used for because it weakens the line. If it has to be done, at least use a knot appropriate for the use and that does the least damage.

I think that with all the sailing experience Hobie has they would know better.

I have ordered new spectra cord and will be replacing all of the existing rudder line. I think I will also install a turnbuckle in the system to tension the lines

Disquieted,

j



sorry for the long post but i thought some of it was relavent

j

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2011 Golden Papaya TI with a 250 square foot spinnaker!
also a more manageable 100 square foot spinny...
&
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 Post subject: Re: Lee helm AI
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2227
Location: Maui, Hawaii
I check the lines when I receive a new boat and tighten as necessary, but I always expect to have to readjust after a sail or two when everything stretches and tightens.

Also, I don't like any more rudder up/down lines in the cockpit than necessary, so I always adjust so almost all the slack out of the line so it starts pulling the rudder up or down within an inch of pulling each line, but still isn't under much tension as it sits. Often, as it comes from the factory, it seem you pull 4-6 inches before anything starts happening and have two feet of line to deal with.

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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