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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
I had the screw socket break on my AI. I have the replacement stronger version of the screw socket, but the screw broke off flush and my attempts to back it out with a screw extractor bit with no luck. I'm kind of stuck on how to proceed. See the photo before I tried to extract to see what I had to work with.

I see topics on the forums related to the TI as below but nothing specifically related to a difficult screw socket extraction like I am dealing with here.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=36284

Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed?

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ShakaGeoff
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AI x2 Revo x2 Outback Oasis Pursuit Odyssey Bravo

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral, FL
Depends on what tools you have. Stainless steel is very hard, making drilling a hole for an extractor difficult. Still, not a bad option because it uses common tools. You need a drill and an extractor. If you have a dremel tool, you can cut a slot in the top of the bolt. Use a diamond bit and a cooling/lubricating fluid, it will get hot enough to melt the boat. Go slow and good luck.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Location: tampa, fl
Small hardware stores sometimes carry left hand drill bits. These are good for extraction purposes as they will often grab the bolt or screw and turn it out as you proceed. Worse case you have a hole for an extractor. Watch the heat . Watch the fumes.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
That's not good.
Have you tried drilling the centre of it out using a new cobalt drill bit and plenty of cutting fluid? Then use the screw extractor.
This SS has been chosen for it's strength so I'm guessing it won't be an easy job.
If drilling is impossible then grinding a slot as k7 suggests may be the only option. It shouldn't matter too much if the brass insert gets slotted superficially as well in the process.

Do you have any idea how the screw broke and have you contacted your dealer or Hobie? I'd be interested to hear the official response to this.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Thanks for the help everyone. I have not tried to tackle this again yet, but I did contact Hobie directly and got this reply:

Try drilling a hole in the broken off screw with a 3/16” reverse drill bit and it may come out in the drilling process. If it doesn’t try an extractor again once you have the hole drilled. If you end up destroying the ¼-20 threads, there is enough room to tap it out to 5/16-18 and go with a bigger set screw. The V-frame would need to be drilled out to 5/16 in that case.

So, they can provide a 5/16-18 bolt if we need to go that far. Kayaking Bob gave some advice using a dremel saw blade to attempt to get the broken bolt out again, but I'm not going top lie when I say I didn't follow him completely, but luckily my friend Travis did and he will be helping me... he's a bit better with this kind of stuff but I'm learning all the time. I'll let you know how it turns out, we'll work on it tomorrow night. I think the caution everyone gives about fluids and going slow is very wise, so will be doing that!

And, I think from the contact I had with Hobie that they would probably process this for warranty (or help me with hull replacement per their typical policy). I'm hoping to save this one though, as it's not a crack in the hull (I've had a couple of those) and it's been a good AI :-)

Aloha....

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:52 am 
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Location: Riverside, S. California, USA
So if I understand it right, Hobie has changed the material in the bolt holding the V frame base to be stronger. Is this something that, before it shears off, is not to hard to replace with the improved material prophylactically? Is it a stud, since it looks as if it has a nut screwed onto its top, and it must screw into that molded in fitting on the hull.
Is there a part number, and any guidance about which boats already have the upgrade?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:22 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
In the parts guide as:

88991215 SET SCREW, TI MAST V BRACE 1/4-20 THRD RLD, 17-4 SS

Yes, you can replace it as a precaution. It is held in with blue Loc Tite.

Both the rolled threads and the 17-4 stainless were improvements in strength.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:34 am 
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Location: Riverside, S. California, USA
Thanks Matt. Very impressive how responsive you are on these forums!
Do you know when this new version became standard equipment? Does something similar apply to the AI?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:41 pm 
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The screw change appears to have happened on the TI in April 2011.

The engineers did not feel the AI required this change due to added costs and not having seem many failures on an AI rig. I show the stronger screw as a replacement part for the AI in the catalog, but do not see it in a AI bill of material. I believe it is being used on the AI though since last year. Just a clerical issue I am chasing down.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Well, our attempts to extract the extractor or drill & thread for a larger bolt failed. The broken extractor bit in there was super stubborn and didn't allow us to do much aside from all but destroy the nut. Hobie is going to get me a new hull for a good chunk of change... it's more a bummer because there's nothing wrong with the hull otherwise.

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AI x2 Revo x2 Outback Oasis Pursuit Odyssey Bravo

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:31 am 
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Location: Kailua 96734
For an 07, be grateful. Your new hull will rock.

Though shipping costs to Hawaii can be a drag.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:11 am 
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It makes a good Adventure hull still. Full value as a Mirage kayak... just not an Island, so selling that will help offset any cost of replacement.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Location: Delaware Coast
The picture in the first post made me cringe so I ordered a new screw for my TI.

Does anyone know if I can simply back the old one out and insert the new one without disassembling the V-Frame?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Got mine! ;-)

You should at least retract the turnbuckles and sink the new screw with loctite. You could mark the adjustment location before starting. Maybe a new locknut would be advised too.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
I replaced my TI's screw when the stronger version was first available and it was a simple job. There was very little loctite holding the original so it was just screw out and then screw in the new one. I added an extra lock nut.
I recently upgraded my '11 AI and it was a much more difficult job. The loctite holding the superceded screw in wouldn't let go and I rounded out the hex head. That meant dismantling the v-brace so I could get vice grips on the socket screw. Eventually got it. The original screw wasn't bent (it was on the TI) so I don't think it's too much of an issue on the AI.
What's important is to check regularly that everything is tight, paying close attention to the socket screw and lock nut.


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